Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

I do not agree with the Deputy's thinking on this matter. Public-private partnerships here and elsewhere are designed to involve the private sector more efficiently and speedily because it has expertise in undertaking such projects and to try to complete projects more quickly. There is a cost effect too because the State will always be able to make better loan arrangements than anyone else, provided its rating is healthy. The State, however, cannot do everything in one year or period.

There will always be a significant backlog of capital investment projects required. The State can engage the private sector through public-private partnerships, with proper procurement standards and arrangements which work well internationally. There is a good range of examples. The Deputy is correct to say we were late into this area. We can, however, see where others have made mistakes or where there are good models, and use proper procurement arrangements to enable strategic developments.

Whether in schools in 1999, or in some other areas, this involves a learning curve. Deputy Kenny mentioned the Cork School of Music which got into difficulties mainly because the original company pulled out and other companies were not interested in coming in. By and large people are interested in coming into road, sewage and water treatment projects. These are good examples of design, build and manage contracts which are good for the State. We have a range of these and they will build up over time. The State will not always have the expertise to carry out these projects within its ambit. If there are good quality private sector companies, Irish or other, which have international acclaim, which can carry out and finance these projects it is a good way to work. A relatively small element of the overall capital programme is under public-private partnership but it is good to deal with part of the capital programme in that way.

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