Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

I have no disrespect for the Minister for Education and Science and her ability to respond but it may be better to wait until the Minister appears.

I had just started on the last occasion the Bill was before the House. I have a built-in sensitivity in regard to the words "control", "navigation" and so on because we live in a world where control seems to grow and grow. There are a number of issues I would like to see dealt with. The interests of those who use airlines on a daily basis should be kept to the fore, as opposed to the interests of bureaucrats, administrators and distributors of information who do so on a need to know basis, that is, their determination of what one needs to know. In such a situation it should be the customer's determination of what he or she needs to know and it should not be at the behest of bureaucrats or administrators.

One area I hope the Bill deals with is a matter raised in a recent TV programme. I saw in a recent TV exposé of a particular airline where people were expected to sit on the tarmac for two hours and wait. I hate to say this but it did not require an exposé to bring that issue to the fore. That has happened to many people in respect of all airlines from time to time, not just one airline, Ryanair. It has happened at Dublin Airport on countless occasions where people have had to wait for a slot through Air Traffic Control from the UK and go through considerable inconvenience. I was amazed that in the recent TV exposé it was deemed extraordinary that passengers were exposed to unusual hardship as a result of this, as it happens all the time. It does not happen with the Government jet but it happens to other aircraft. Let us be clear that particular issue was aired and broadcast for a particular effect. The people who produced that programme could go back again and examine all aspects of air traffic control and air traffic management or the situation whereby people have had to wait on the tarmac for up to two and three hours. I hope that issue will be dealt with in a way that ensures passengers are not treated in that fashion.

Another matter that needs to be brought to public attention is the ever-growing concern about safety. We all realise that air traffic control and management is a huge issue. We recognise there should be some means of regular monitoring of the swings and balances in place to protect human life and those who use the system as opposed to the protection of a system. We need to keep in mind that aircraft are getting bigger and are able to carry more passengers. The most recent construction from the aircraft industry will carry more people than ever before. We are talking about a huge liability in terms of safety so far as passengers using the aircraft are concerned. The time to do things is not after the event. All the necessary procedures should be put in place before the event to ensure the optimum safety requirements are met. All the training in respect of crews should be met in such a way as to ensure we cover ourselves in the event of a tragic event arising.

We have all had examples of Irish passengers being stranded abroad, particularly at holiday time. Here I refer to chartered aircraft where it is not unusual for passengers to be stranded abroad for a day and a night and sometimes two or three days and nights for one reason or another. In some cases it is due to a dispute, overbooking or quick turn-around and inability to do the turn-around in the shortest possible time. Without mentioning any airline I revert to the recent TV programme that attempted to reflect poorly on what is essentially a busy low-fares Irish airline.

Most of the critical issues raised in the programme have affected every airline in the world at one time or another, and some to a greater extent than the airline that was the subject of the programme.

The question of overbooking applies not just to one airline but to many, and contempt for passengers by the industry in cases of overbooking is well known. I have not experienced this while flying with our national airline, but suffice it to say that all the issues brought to the fore in the programme are not unusual. Regard should be had for the need to uphold the highest possible safety standards.

Landing fees and route charges contribute to the cost of flying and greatly inhibit the development of a proper air transport system in and between countries. I do not wish to elaborate on the various problems in this regard, but we know and have spoken about them. Landing charges and other route charges that affect the cost to the consumer inhibit the ability of airlines to deliver a quality product to consumers. All such issues need to be borne in mind and dealt with, but not at the expense of safety. If this could be done, it would make a great difference.

On the question of landing slots and flight plans, I do not know how much better circumstances will be after the passage of this legislation, in spite of its being important to co-ordinating the methodology for dealing with air traffic. Let us hope that when it is implemented, any problems that arise or are seen to arise will be dealt with effectively and on the basis of experience.

I am sure we have all been on flights during which there have been worrying incidents. I remember having one such experience quite a long time ago. When I was younger and had more time on my hands, for my sins I learned to fly an aeroplane and therefore had a little knowledge of what was happening during the crisis. Nobody ever informed the passengers about what had happened. The incident was ignored and nobody said there had been a close call or acknowledged that the passengers got a shock. The pilot did not request over the tannoy that passengers relax or state there had been a minor transmission problem, or whatever it was. Incidents occur occasionally that are not necessarily in accord with what should happen.

On the legislation affecting air traffic control, we should learn from experience, not only where incidents are reported but also where incidents that are obvious to somebody somewhere are not recorded. All incidents are supposed to be recorded in a specific way. I do not want to point the finger at those who were responsible for the incident I experienced and will therefore elaborate no further. Suffice it to say that no one airline has a monopoly on safety. They all try to do a reasonably good job and should be commended on doing so.

As an island nation, we need to focus on our means of transport and recognise that air travel is one of the quickest and most efficient ways of getting on and off an island. Therefore, the development of our airports is especially important. We can do much more in this regard, including at Donegal and Derry airports and all the other airports in that part of the country which will be particularly well known to the Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher. A great burden in terms of travelling time and stress could be alleviated if a properly integrated transport system were introduced. Use should be made of downtime, during which airports such as Dublin Airport are less crowded than they are normally.

The Weston Aerodrome has been a contentious issue in my constituency. It is an airport of long standing but has been subject to problems recently because of an alleged failure to recognise certain codes and standards. In the Weston Aerodrome, as with every other airport, all standard procedures and practices should be adhered to. The air navigation authorities need to recognise that if a query is raised, they should address it on the basis of the need to respond to what could potentially become a safety issue. I devoted considerable time and energy to getting information on the Weston Aerodrome, but it does not always come that easily. The rules and regulations that normally apply should apply at all times. There were local protests at the Weston Aerodrome and people were flying kites to discourage aircraft from landing. I do not condone this as it gives rise to a safety issue. No protestor should potentially threaten the lives of others, regardless of their purposes.

There is a need to free up access to check-in facilities at airports. This could be done in a variety of ways. We spend a great deal of time queuing in traffic en route to Dublin Airport, and probably spend more time doing so than flying to destinations on the Continent. It must be possible to find a means of checking in at a location outside the airport. For instance, the check-in facility at some of the continental airports may be five miles from the terminal, and one travels from the facility to the terminal by electric car, coach or other means. One does not have to be beside the aircraft when checking in for a flight. One could check in elsewhere and meet all security requirements as long as there is no interference with the transport system used to take one to the terminal. I believe Frankfurt Airport has a very sophisticated rapid transport system operating from the check-in area to the terminal, which may be ten miles away.

Sometimes when an aircraft lands and reaches the hangar, an elevated staircase is used to allow passengers to disembark. Sometimes, however, coaches drive onto the tarmac to collect them, thus allowing them to leave quickly and go about their business. This does not always happen, however. Sometimes one has to wait out on the tarmac because there is a shortage of coaches. When one is brought back in, one has to wait at the baggage reception area. I wonder whether sufficient time has been spent evaluating the degree to which baggage reclaim and handling systems at airports could be improved. I note that one airline is giving priority to bags carried by hand and stowed in overhead compartments. That is a good thing.

I am always worried when preparing to check in that a group of 25 or more people, each with approximately 400 pieces of baggage to be checked in individually, will arrive at the desk just before me. I can never understand why people are allowed to bring such heavy baggage on the airplane. We all know we have to ensure that our baggage complies with the maximum weight regulations. It is not unusual to see people of certain nationalities — perhaps I should not say that — with a multiplicity of bags. The only conclusion I can reach is that there must be nothing is the bags because if there was any kind of weight in them, the airplane would not get off the ground. I suggest that business people who use airlines should bring the minimum amount of baggage. It is not necessary to drag tonnes of gear on such trips. Perhaps one would need a great deal of baggage if one was making a film, but there is no need to bring the whole house when one is going on an ordinary business trip.

On the effectiveness of this Bill, I hope Eurocontrol will be of benefit to this country. If one is leaving this nation one has to go by air or sea, whereas people in almost every other country in Europe can travel to other countries by road or rail. In light of our experiences with tunnels, I am loath to suggest that we should develop an international tunnel system. I have sympathy for the Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher, who has inherited responsibility for the Dublin Port tunnel from his predecessor. The first thing he will have to do is buy an umbrella. He might also need the waders he used in his last job because our experience of tunnels is not very reassuring. I do not doubt that the Minister of State will rise to the occasion by using his ability to tackle problems of this nature. I remind him to keep well above the water as it pours down in litres through the damaged tunnel membrane. I am helping and encouraging the Minister of State by tipping him off about a couple of issues which are likely to cause problems for him.

I welcome the Bill before the House. I hope it will benefit this country's air traffic management and control systems. I hope it will help to meet the needs of those of us who are citizens of an island nation. Most other European people do not have such needs. I emphasise that aspect of the legislation.

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