Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)

There has been much discussion about the repeal of the groceries order and this Bill is introduced in that context. Instead of totally relying on the so-called experts, it would be useful to ask people what is making them fearful about retaining their local shops and why we are seeing so many such shops disappearing. It is interesting when one hears at first hand from people on these issues. It is not difficult to see that the independent retail sector is in a state of decline. This is often because of location, accessibility, convenience and so forth. This decline was happening prior to the repeal of the groceries order and we must ask why, whether we care about it and whether we want to retain the independent outlets. Independent retailers, many of whom are not in the grocery trade and are therefore not covered by the order, are a dying breed. One only has to look at our towns and villages and the number of multiples operating in them. Petrol stations are becoming more like convenience stores.

The decline is not simply because competition from multiples affects independent retailers. Such retailers are not part of the planning system and are not valued as part of that system. There are plenty of pious platitudes in town and county plans about supporting independent retailers but when one looks closely one sees that there is precious little practical support for town, village and neighbourhood centres in such plans. If a car park is to be built, for example, it is usually done by the private sector in conjunction with a significant new shopping centre. The approach by planners is a hands-off one.

It is often much more expensive to construct a retail outlet in a town centre than on a greenfield site on the periphery and the latter option is generally preferred by the larger retail operations as it makes traffic planning easier and does not confine them in terms of size. Such developments are car dominant but we need to encourage people to get out of their cars and into the shops. If we do not provide for that and recognise that ready access must be included in the planning system, the policy becomes car-driven by default.

Our development pattern is not based on deliberate forward planning but on controlling development, based on the premise that big is beautiful. Many of our towns and villages cannot support large scale shopping complexes because their centres are so constrained. Rather than having a mixture of medium-sized developments, where each town is self-sufficient, we have larger retail developments on the periphery of towns and the car becomes essential for travel to such developments because often there is no public transport available. That has a knock-on effect, particularly for those people who do not have private transport. They cannot avail of the economies of scale of such outlets, thus reducing their shopping bills and often they are the people who need to do so.

An article in the The Irish Times today referred to the fact that, from a tourism perspective, Ireland has become less attractive because there is a sameness about the country and it has lost a certain amount of individuality. Such individuality comes from individual shops, whether they be grocers, drapers, booksellers or whatever. The vibrancy that comes from many people mingling, going in and out of varied shops, adds to the character of a place. While we should not solely focus on tourism, shopping is a serious part of most tourists' experience. Very few people go on holidays without including shopping at some point. I am not a big fan of retail therapy but I acknowledge that shopping is important.

The small neighbourhood outlets that cater for day-to-day needs cannot compete with the large bulk buyers and their goods are therefore more expensive. The comments of organisations such as Crosscare and the Combat Poverty Agency should not be ignored in that context. The anti-poverty strategy introduced during the term of the rainbow Government required poverty-proofing of policy. That does not integrate with this policy because the organisations saying there is a difficulty are those that articulate the difficulties of the poorest of society.

The multiple outlet can provide car parking, late night opening, security and other peripherals. A shop owner on the main street in Maynooth told me that of the shops on the street 20 years ago, only two remain. There is a new shopping centre up the road with car parking and she said that she would have to move there to compete. Her difficulty, however, was that she would need to mortgage her house to do it because she cannot front-load money in the same way as the multiple operators. That is how the individual is disadvantaged. Many people were coming into the shop, perhaps because there was a sale, but this demonstrates the difficulties for the individual shop owner.

This does not necessarily mean each town gets a large multiple. In Leixlip there is a population of 18,000 but until Lidl opened a store 18 months ago, there was no multiple. Scale did not bring the requisite shopping centre. Instead of towns with character, however, where people go into shops, main streets are dominated by estate agents, banks, accountants and solicitors during the day and at night by activity around bars. A whole segment is missing, leading to a loss of character. The smaller individuals who cater to specialist taste are being lost, meaning that we must go to a deli counter in a supermarket to get some things.

This has an impact on the quality of people's lives but it is not regretted until it is gone. We cannot be passive about this. There must be a proactive approach where we deliberately stress the importance of this sector. We must do more than protect it in an academic sense, we must do it in a practical way by giving these retailers an opportunity to continue in business. It is not just about retaining grocery stores but also craft stores, book shops and clothes shops. Provision must be made for people getting to them, civilising our streets and making them attractive, and for traffic management. I have mixed views about the groceries order in that context because there has been a decline in these areas since it has been in place.

I remember the day the Liffey Valley centre opened. Someone noted on the radio that we spent 800 years getting the British to leave, only to discover that they had come back to Liffey Valley, where all the British multiples were located. That describes the situation well. If we want British high streets, let us go there but let us keep some element of individuality to describe ourselves. That was humorous but it reflects what is happening.

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