John Dennehy (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)

Deputy Fiona O'Malley has dealt with technical aspects of the Bill. I will comment on some things that were said earlier. Deputy Boyle said he was a neighbour of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, and referred emotionally to the number of corner shops that have closed down in his locality. The area in question has done very well in terms of representation as I lived about 300 yd on the other side of Deputy Boyle, on High Street, and am aware of all the shops he mentioned. In that context it is important to note the figure quoted by Deputy O' Malley of 2,500 shops that have closed under the existing legislation in the past ten or 12 years. We are all aware of the reasons for that and need to be totally honest about it. The primary reason for their closure is their customers exercised their option to shop where they felt they would get the best value, as they are entitled to do. One can argue about the effects of advertising, among other things, but the bottom line is the consumer will go where he or she wishes and is correct so to do.

Those of us who have concentrated on work and, in an old-fashioned way, have left the shopping to the partner might not be as aware of the need to look for value for money as, say, a housewife. Everybody is involved in shopping now, however, and their primary objective is value for money. This legislation will assist in that regard.

Deputy Boyle was surprised that Deputy Ned O'Keeffe had concerns about this legislation. He should not assume there is a monopoly of concern on any issue on the Opposition side of the House. Regardless of who forms a Government, there will be concerns on the part of every elected Member on any legislation. Our job is to thrash it out and to get as many of our concerns taken on board to reflect the views and concerns of everybody outside the House, such as traders, suppliers and, most of all in this context, consumers.

I received the same lobbying material and some of the difficulties have been or can be dealt with quite easily. I am surprised that some large traders were concerned about the prompt payments legislation. Again, that can be taken care of quite effectively.

Below cost selling and the ability of foreign conglomerates to come in and put our local traders out of business are the primary concern for the future. The fact, as referred to by Deputy Ned O'Keeffe, that Statoil is withdrawing shows that the large foreign company is not always successful and cannot always compete effectively with our people. One of the most successful groups in the country, Musgraves, is based in my area, the Tramore Road in Cork, and trades under a number of business names with various partners. They started with a modest store, Smiths, and developed with professionalism, commitment and hard work. That can be done if there is protection from unfair practices and trading and we will have to ensure that that is the case. If there is a need to come back to the legislation with amendments, so be it.

It is neither accurate nor necessary to paint the picture of the deserted villages in parts of England. I was confronted with such prophecies on two occasions. Ten years ago, RGDATA came as representatives of all the small shops in Douglas village in Cork and said they would be gone within two years if a major supermarket developed there. A large shopping mall was proposed. Now, nobody can afford to buy a square foot of space in Douglas. It is probably the most expensive area in Cork and every shop there trades very well.

When I was Lord Mayor of Cork in 1983 there was a joint proposal by the city council and a private developer to build the first multi-storey car park in the region. The development, which now includes shops, is known as the Paul Street development. At the time I was summoned by the traders of Patrick Street and their representatives and was told it would be like a deserted village after a couple of years, that the new development would suck the life out of Patrick Street. Again this was obviously incorrect and we have since had Mahon Point, Wilton and various other developments.

We can cry wolf and paint a frightening picture, but it is not fair. As I said, 2,500 shops have closed under the existing legislation. Over the summer, I discussed with suppliers and traders their fears in terms of the proposals and raised these with the Minister at our parliamentary party meeting. Every Member of this House wants a successful trading system for groceries and other goods which will give consumers the best possible value for money. I listen carefully to the Competition Authority and do not try to second-guess it or prove it wrong. We need to look to the future and it is not helpful to look at shoe and clothing factories in Cork or Donegal because these are separate issues which have no relation to the legislation under discussion. It does the debate no good to raise these issues. While we should be proud of our minimum wage levels, these affect that kind of trading.

I have examined all sides of this legislation and, as far as I can determine, it makes a positive contribution. Difficulties may crop up and accusations of dominance arise, although we were told the arrival of Lidl would result in the closure of everybody else but that prediction proved wrong. In the context of this relatively small country, we need to monitor these matters constantly. However, I do not believe in the old-fashioned idea that any competition will kill off everybody. With regard to the picture of closing shops painted by Deputy Boyle, my neighbour, a young married man, operates a small shop attached to his house. Last week, this single-handed operator doubled the size of his business. He is successful because he works extremely hard. There is room for people to progress.

The debate on this and earlier legislation boils down to one issue, that is, controlling unfair trading, and all other matters are extraneous. Our job is to ensure that trading is controlled, an objective which is shared by everybody in this House. Like any legislation, this Bill may need amending. Longer serving and wiser heads in this House have seen previous occasions in which legislation had to be revisited.

We heard a harrowing description of four major suppliers in the UK who control the entire market, yet three sentences later, we were told that 80% of the trade in Ireland is controlled by three enterprises. Effectively, the situation already exists here.

I do not set myself up as an expert because my experience in this comes from buying goods in shops but we need to bring benefits to the consumer and I am hopeful that this legislation will achieve that end.

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