Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)

Fine Gael welcomes the proposed establishment of this commission. I should preface my contribution by saying that I will ignore the Minister's opening remarks other than to say that they show how incorrigible he is. They probably confirm the view that he will never learn. We will leave that matter aside, however, and deal with the serious issue in the motion.

It is important for the House to support the right of victims of abuse to tell their stories so that the full and dreadful nature of their abuse and exploitation can be recounted as they so wish. It is important that this be done within a workable timeframe and in a way that is sufficiently resourced to ensure that those victims will feel they are being treated properly.

The case of Marie Therese O'Loughlin has been raised recently in the House on a number of occasions. I saw a chink of light in the Taoiseach's response this morning. When somebody has clearly been the victim of abuse and believes he or she must resort to the measures she has taken, we all want to find a solution to his or her case. If it is the situation that she was an inmate of another institution covered by the Residential Institutions Redress Act, we would all want to see her case being dealt with as quickly as possible.

I am interested in the need for a proper political will behind what steps are taken as well as the provision of proper resources. I know we must tread a fine line, but when the House agrees to establish an investigation, we should know that it will be properly dealt with and resourced. I am thinking of the example of the commission under Ms Justice Laffoy which eventually ran into the ground to a great degree since she had to resign owing to the difficulties that she experienced in securing resources for it. On the one hand, I would like to see the commission of investigation properly resourced, and on the other hand I do not want a situation to arise whereby, after a time, there is commission fatigue among the public and an element of scandal since people may feel that resources have been wasted. That is the fine line that we must tread. We must ensure proper resources but also that there is no sense of their being wasted.

From that perspective, it is obviously extremely important that any commission established by this House be fully accountable and transparent. On the question of resources, I know that the Minister will have to come back to us with detailed projections. It would be helpful at this stage if he could give us a rough idea. Has any thought been given to ballpark figures or to the general factors that might affect the final total? If the public knew in advance of the time and cost, it would be better prepared to support fully the resources needed to bring the commission to a successful conclusion. I say that in all fairness to the judge who has agreed to accept the position as chair of the commission. That person must be assured that the full resources will be made available.

Regarding the issues the Minister mentioned in his speech, it would be helpful from the perspective of the House and the public for him to deal with the decision to opt for a representative sample as opposed to hearing all such complaints. I can see that one might not want to be totally open-ended, but how will that representative sample work and what percentage of complaints will be adopted? Will individuals who may have been seriously abused feel aggrieved at their exclusion from the process owing to the way in which the representative sample is selected? Perhaps the Minister might provide further information on that.

In his reply, the Minister might also give some indication of what matters in his ambit remain outstanding of those raised in the Ferns Report. Several such issues require a response from him. One was the commission of investigation that we are now establishing, but there were also questions regarding legal aid. Have they been addressed? What situation will arise regarding those coming before the commission that we are now setting up? In a broader context, the Ferns Report recommended that legal aid irrespective of means be made available to both complainants and priests against whom allegations are made where the cases are not determined by a criminal court. Is there now a decision to ensure that such legal aid will be available?

Several other issues arose in the Ferns Report that call for action on the part of the Minister, one being the question of introducing a new offence. That seems to have been lumped in with the proposal to table an amendment to the Criminal Justice Bill 2004. I must issue a word of concern at this stage regarding the Bill and question whether all those amendments might ever be brought on board. Will the Bill ever complete the legislative process? We will end up with an absolute blockbuster and I am concerned about its faltering under its own weight and failing to pass in the lifetime of the current Government. There are now many proposals to add to it.

There is also an issue that I felt quite important, namely, the reference in the report to training procedures for members of the Garda Síochána. There was particular mention of the approach adopted in Northern Ireland by the PSNI. Specialist child protection units were referred to as being very highly regarded there. It was thought that we could take a leaf out of their book and that the approach adopted in Northern Ireland could provide a useful model. I wonder if that recommendation has been followed. It would obviously be very difficult to implement a process whereby it could be acted on very quickly.

As far as the current proposal is concerned, I am very glad to lend the motion before the House my full support. I would like to raise another issue touched on by the Minister in his speech which concerned the situation in other dioceses. I understand that we would want to have a process to deal with dioceses where new guidelines were not operating satisfactorily, but at this stage I find it difficult to understand. I am somewhat impatient regarding where a diocese has put the necessary guidelines in place. It would be helpful if the Minister might outline the situation in that regard.

The Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, has a role. Does the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, know if any diocese has thus far failed to establish the structures referred to in his speech? If so, perhaps serious steps should be taken immediately to ensure they are put in place. I take the point that if it is merely a question of examining whether they are operating satisfactorily, that is a separate issue. However, perhaps the Minister might deal with that in his reply. Overall, I am very happy to give the motion before the House my full support on behalf of Fine Gael.

See this speech in context