Jim Glennon (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)

I thank Deputy Healy-Rae for sharing time. I take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher, on his tremendous work over a long number of years in the area of sea fisheries. There is probably no other Deputy in the House as well qualified, or with the deep experience of the marine and fishing activities, as the Minister of State with regard to this issue.

When I mentioned to a person this morning that I would speak on this Bill, an eyebrow was raised. I was asked how a Dublin Deputy would have an opinion on marine matters. This relates to my interest in agricultural matters. My constituency of Dublin North has traditionally had the horticultural and mariculture industries as the twin pillars of its economy. The horticultural industry is doing quite well in difficult circumstances, but the same cannot be said about the fishing industry.

Within a few miles of my home there are the harbours and fishing ports of Balbriggan, Skerries and Loughshinny. Unfortunately I have seen in my lifetime the gradual decline of these harbours to bases for leisure activity rather than commercial activity. Growing up in Skerries in the 1960s there were ten boats fishing daily from the local harbour. In the late 1960s the pier was extended and doubled in size, and the fleet doubled in size. Over the next 20 years there were approximately 20 larger boats fishing out of Skerries. It is sad to report that there are currently only five boats fishing out of Skerries.

Balbriggan has dwindled somewhat also, although not to the same extent. There is a small amount of lobster fishing being done out of Loughshinny. It is sad that the Irish Sea has been over-fished to the point that it is almost cleaned out. The experience of the ports in my area is replicated along the coast from Kilkeel to Arklow. Some attribute this to over-regulation, others to under-regulation, while the more astute say it is due to abuse of regulation.

We all agree that the fishing industry was the victim of the State's accession negotiations to the then EEC, and it has had a bad time since. It was the poor relation of agriculture at the time of those negotiations in the early 1970s and remains so. It is overrun by foreign craft fishing with little regard for regulation or chance of detection. Our fishing industry has been the victim of bureaucracy for 30 years. My colleagues and I have received comments from fishermen around the country who see themselves as victims again in respect of this Bill.

I was interested to listen to many of my colleagues, whose knowledge of the marine is highly respected, debate this issue on 24 November. In particular, Deputy O'Donovan read into the record a letter from a solicitor whom he did not know. It stated:

I do a lot of work for people in the Marine business around the coast, and I have had a couple of recent cases of representing individuals under the fisheries Acts. In fact this morning, I was in the Circuit Criminal Court [where serious crimes relating to drugs, rape and violent crime against the person are dealt with, and fishermen are brought in there] representing a young fisherman whose offence was that he had not filled in the Log Book [a technical offence]. At the trial, evidence was given of extenuating circumstances — bad weather, mechanical breakdown, and there was no suggestion that he was to profit in any way for his administrative lapse.

Notwithstanding all of that, penalties in the amount of €40,000 were imposed, comprising of a fine of €10,000, forfeiture of the catch and the gear, and in addition the client was at the loss of fishing when his boat was tied up, and also the cost of legal fees...

Legal fees for the defence amounted to €40,000 for a technical offence from which he did not profit. There is something very badly wrong with a system that penalises a man doing his daily work in the difficult circumstances that fishing presents, amounting to a total cost of €80,000.

The point was made that, according to EU records and standards, 86% of all EU fisheries offences are dealt with by way of administrative sanctions. There is a dispute as to whether there is a constitutional impediment in this country to changing our laws to facilitate dealing administratively with these issues.

I appreciate the Minister of State's undertaking to pursue this matter at European level, although it cannot be accommodated in the Bill now. I urge him to proceed swiftly and diligently to deal with this anomaly, which is highly inequitable, at EU level. This appears to be the only answer. When legal opinion conflicts we must abide by that of the Attorney General.

While the levels of fines being introduced are maximum limits, there is something wrong with a system whereby existing fines are increased in some instances by up to 800%, which is out of kilter with the earnings of Irish fishermen. The fines appear to be introduced to deal with the factory ships of Europe, of which we have one or two. Most of our fishermen, however, are not in the factory ship business. There must be some way of linking fines to a vessel's tonnage and capacity.

The fines and detection rates among some of our EU colleagues smell of something badly wrong. In addition, while respecting the independence of the Judiciary, we must devise some system whereby the Judiciary is aware of the political reality and the reality on the ground. This is true not just of fines but of sentencing, which is regularly mentioned in the House. The practice of imposing different penalties on different walks of life, for various breaches of the law is severely criticised inside and outside the House.

Referring to the point raised in the letter to Deputy O'Donovan, I fail to understand why a man who was guilty of a mere technical offence in respect of his log book, in the extenuating circumstances of bad weather and mechanical breakdown, had to pay €80,000 to return to sea. This penalty is disproportionate to the potential profit of an expedition and in that instance the fisherman would not profit financially from his lapse. No other matters, such as previous convictions, were brought before the court. It is incredible that such a penalty is imposed on a man going about his business.

I shudder to think of the effect such a penalty would have on the farming lobby. There would be marches outside the door of the House. The farmers would rightly be camped outside the gate complaining, but because the fishermen are based off-shore, in such small and unfortunately ever-dwindling numbers, they do not have that capacity.

Deputy Deenihan seemed somewhat surprised at the attitude of Fianna Fáil backbenchers to this legislation. They have demonstrated a great exercise in parliamentary democracy. As a result of the debate within party rooms and in this Chamber, the Minister of State has undertaken significant changes which will be introduced on Committee Stage.

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