Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)

I thank the Deputies who contributed to the debate. I am grateful in being facilitated in completing the debate tonight to ensure that the committee can deal with the matter during what is euphemistically referred to as the Christmas recess, which is a time when committees do an enormous amount of their work. I hope that we will be back for Report Stage in the Dáil early in the new year.

All sides have acknowledged that the Bill will make an enormous contribution. Virtually all Deputies who spoke referred to the late transposition, as I did in my opening speech. I used the intervening time for consultation, although not as successfully as I would have liked. Parties with opposing views continue to hold those views. However, I believe the Bill is greatly improved for the time and effort that went into the consultation process.

In transposing the directive we faced a choice between applying the legislation to undertakings with at least 50 employees or establishments with at least 20 employees. A number of Deputies questioned this matter. One of the reasons we decided to go with undertakings with at least 50 employees was that the majority of submissions received on foot of the consultation paper favoured the undertakings route. There were also some other advantages, which I am sure we will thrash out on Committee Stage, regarding establishments that frequently have fewer than 20 employers but may have several employees in their undertakings throughout the country.

Deputies Perry and Boyle sought clarification on the definition of a small and medium enterprise, SME. Under EU rules, an SME is defined as an enterprise which employs fewer than 250 persons and which has an annual turnover not exceeding €50 million and-or an annual balance sheet not exceeding €43 million. This is quite different from what we understand to be an SME in this country in many respects.

Deputy Hogan referred to the bullying element when a deficit of information exists. It would have been very difficult to address the entire complex bullying issue in the context of this legislation. However, as I explained earlier on Question Time, we intend to do so in the context of legislative proposals I hope to put to Government. Deputy Connolly questioned the involvement of the public sector, a matter with which we will deal in considerable detail on Committee Stage. We dealt with the matter in the Seanad and I will give further explanation on Committee Stage.

Deputy Boyle referred to the danger of the services directive and what he sees as an EU move away from the protection of employees. I do not find this to be the case when attending Council meetings, one of which I will attend the day after tomorrow. In general the EU has made a very positive contribution to the quality of Irish labour law. He questioned the whistleblower provisions. Anybody who has looked closely at this Bill will agree that the protections for employees in the context of the Bill are extraordinarily strong, perhaps the strongest provisions made in legislation heretofore. The Government's view in this regard is that we should take a sectoral approach, which is what we have done in this Bill and in the health and safety legislation in which the Deputies opposite were involved. We intend to do the same across a range of sectors.

Deputy Boyle also stated that, in general, foreign direct investment, FDI, companies do not recognise trade unions. I refer Deputies to the considerable amendments made to section 6 of the Bill since it was first published. Many of these amendments deal with trade union concerns in this regard.

The transposition of the directive for the information and consultation of employees as provided in the Bill achieves the best possible balance. We should recognise that strongly opposing views exist. I was very impressed by the quality of contributions in this House and in the Seanad which showed a considerable level of information in the intention of the directive. We have tried to transpose it allowing as much leeway as possible for the strong and successful voluntarist tradition that exists in the country to inform the culture which will underpin information and consultation under the Bill.

Deputies Ryan and Boyle had questions about the phase-in application, which is provided for in Article 10 of the directive. It seems to sit very comfortably with our traditional voluntarist approach. A number of Deputies, including Deputies Howlin, Boyle, Healy and Ryan, considered our approach to be minimalist. I would strongly contend that we have struck a particularly good balance allowing the maximum flexibility to both employers and employees to have a system that best suits their own circumstances. If we had attempted to take a one-size-fits-all approach, we would have done enormous damage and would not have adhered to the intent of the directive. It certainly would not have made a positive contribution to Irish labour law in this regard.

A number of Deputies also raised the issue of trade union recognition. We need to recognise this is a fundamentally different issue from the intention of the information and consultation directive. If a case for addressing the issue exists, it is not in the context of this legislation. It would be entirely inappropriate to use the background of this directive to deal with that issue.

Deputies also asked about the trigger mechanism, on which strongly opposing views exist. The directive refers to the right of employees to be informed and consulted about certain matters affecting them. As such, employees can choose whether to exercise this right. The choice is left to each member state to decide how to trigger this right or whether to provide that it automatically applies. The opt-in trigger mechanism provided for in the Bill ensures that a minimum number support such an arrangement being put in place while avoiding an unnecessary burden on enterprises where the employee demand for such arrangement does not exist. This point was made strongly and lucidly by Deputy Hogan and others and we need to take it into account. Having a minimum number and a maximum number for the trigger mechanism would strike a very good middle ground. It is not just employees who can initiate negotiations. The Bill provides that the employer can also do so.

Deputy Durkan referred to agency workers. As was the case in the Seanad, this will be a central element of the debate on Committee Stage. Ultimately it comes down to whether the employee is on a contract of service or a contract for service with the employer as to whether the agency or the principal employer has the obligations under information and consultation. It is important that this is provided in undertakings of a particular size. I am entirely satisfied that the approach we have taken in the Bill provides that people with agencies have the same rights as others depending on the size of the company at the particular time.

This directive dates from 1997 when the Renault assembly plant in Vilvoorde in Belgium closed and the manner in which the decision was announced. Deputies on all sides pointed to enormous advantages that accrue when enterprises have a good level of information and consultation. During the Seanad debate I felt that people were reading into the intent of the legislation something that goes considerably beyond what was intended. Ultimately this is about information and consultation alone. It provides for a very positive workplace ethos if both employers and employees adopt the principles in the manner for which we have provided. We have tried to give people maximum flexibility. In some circumstances it suits individual employees to have information supplied directly to them. In some enterprises this already happens to an extraordinarily high standard and very effectively. In other cases this does not happen and in some of those cases it is clearly open to individual workers or groups of workers to seek that a representational system be introduced as is provided for in the legislation.

The legislation provides for very strong penalties in the event that an employer fails to provide information and consultation. Equally importantly and in groundbreaking terms we have provided for a number of protections for employees going far beyond what is provided for in other legislation. I hope the Bill can be progressed through Committee Stage during the recess and that we will be back in this Chamber for Report Stage. I assure Deputies that I approach this legislation with an open mind. I said that in the Seanad. I accepted a number of amendments in that House having been persuaded during the debate, especially on Report Stage.

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