Jim Glennon (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)

I wish to share time with my colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food, Deputy Browne.

While I am glad of the opportunity to contribute to such an important debate, like my colleagues I regret the situation that has given rise to this debate. Like Deputy Neville, I am a member of the Roman Catholic Church and describe myself as an á la carte Catholic. I also had an uncle, now deceased, who as a member of the clergy had a role in the Canon Law procedures concerning clerical abuse in the Dublin diocese.

The term "abuse" is facile and inappropriate in this context. We speak of the abuse of power, position, influence, and of children. It is not right to place the subject in respect of children in the same category as the other forms of abuse. The bodies, minds and integrity of these children were violated. We should refer to the perpetrators of that act not as abusers but as violators, a stronger, better word with a unique meaning eminently appropriate in these unfortunate circumstances.

There has been much criticism of church and State in recent weeks, much of it justified. The twin pillars of Irish society for so many years are on shifting sands. Both have been very slow to react and have earned themselves no credit. The State has been guilty of not listening. If it listened, it certainly paid no heed. Yet again we have the Irish phenomenon of missing files. What is it with us and missing files? We have them in the planning inquiries, in cases of Garda corruption and now in paedophilia. To me, missing files represent a complete exploitation of the presumption of innocence, one of the cornerstones of our democracy. As legislators we must bite the bullet and increase the onus on those charged with the custody of files, to ensure the information continued in them is available. There should be no lack of opportunity now to maintain an alternative or back-up file but I hope this is the last instance we have of worthwhile and vital investigations such as this being impeded and inhibited because of the excuse of missing files. I do not accept it for a minute, nor does anyone. "Missing" is not an appropriate word. Other words are much more appropriate and should be used.

Deputy O'Sullivan referred to Deputy O'Donnell's contribution. Deputy O'Donnell spoke of the necessity for ending the special relationship between church and State. I agree with her. That relationship has been evolving over the past number of years for the benefit of church and State. It was an unhealthy relationship for both institutions. The days of Canon Law having primacy over civil and State law are gone, and the sooner that becomes hard reality, the better.

The Catholic Church has been let down, first by a small proportion of its clergy, and also by Rome, which had the potential to deliver an objectivity to the decision-making process of the diocese, untouched by the human relations which obviously arise and which plagued this particular controversy. Rome let the diocese down. The diocese was also let down by its own structures. We know, as does everyone in this country, that the vast majority of priests are pillars of our society and essential elements of it.

I am conscious the Minister of State, Deputy Browne, has some relevant remarks to make. I conclude by congratulating Bishop Eamonn Walsh, who has dealt with this issue in an exemplary manner. I also wish our colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Lenihan, all the best in the important and difficult task he has before him. I have no doubt he will pursue his task with the utter integrity needed. If the integrity of this investigation falls short of 100%, a particular disservice will be done to the State in general and in particular to the victims of this unfortunate set of circumstances, of whom there are all too many.

See this speech in context