John Dennehy (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)

——and that has been proven. I will show people who advocate the theory of encouraging such participation but who are not involved in the practical side of dealing with these people sports facilities and the gangs gathered within 200 or 300 yards of them. We cannot tolerate that situation being experienced by people, especially those to whose needs we pay lip-service. We say they built the State and gave us our chance, but they cannot live their lives in a safe environment.

An attempt was made by the Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, when he was Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to deal with this situation by introducing legislation. On that occasion before the night was out, a few of the more prominent groups, whom I will not name, some of whom were associated with religious groups and various other interests, attacked the Bill on the basis of civil liberties. They said that these young people would be deprived of their civil liberties. That was the only reason for power not being granted to move such gangs on.

My local superintendent told me on one occasion that gardaí could only move these people on by 100 yards or so, but I told him I was talking about moving these people on at 2 a.m., not 2 p.m. They have ghetto blasters with them at that time. I found it incredible they could not be moved on further. Opposition Members have advised me, as probably have some Members on the Government side, that there is sufficient law in place, but that superintendent told me he could not move such a gang on. I gave him details of the time and place these people gather and I have seen them.

I have been deeply involved in Cork community services council from its foundation and I can tell Members that those people who gather will not use sports facilities. I have worked with clubs and other groups to put facilities in place. A local curate was told by the same gang exactly what he could do with a timber building facility he had provided because they would burn it down. Members should not tell me that such gangs do not gather in neighbourhoods.

I met three groups in one night complaining about the anti-social behaviour of young people, including a group near my home. The incredible message from the parents in each place was that none of the offenders was local. I said that somebody must be bussing these people from spot to spot. Nobody was prepared to accept responsibility. There is a refusal to accept responsibility.

I agree with Deputy Cuffe who cited a quote by a former Garda Commissioner that it will not be force of arms that will keep the peace but rather good police work. It is impossible to police people who do not want to be policed. That is a fact. There must be an acceptance by the public of the need for the Garda to enforce the rules and regulations. That quotation, like another quotation by Éamon de Valera about dancing at the crossroads, is a bit dated. We must adopt a more modern approach. We need a policing board in place and we need to support the force.

Members of the force must work at times in dreadful and disgraceful circumstances in dealing with the dregs of society. Their representative, P. J. Stone, said:

Would you think on-the-spot fines would work for a drunken lout who can neither leave nor drive? They better make sure they have a litter warden around as well.

That was a reaction to on-the-spot fines which would have been sent by post to the person concerned, as was carefully explained. That kind of reaction is no good to the Garda either. They need to deal with such cases and need our support in doing so. Some Members talk about situations from which they are somewhat removed. I do not know if they mix with the same type of people I see in action. Many of the situations outlined are not based on the facts. I subscribe to the need for recreational facilities but we should not allow gangs to terrorise people. We all have our duty. We may have had to put the boot up the backside of one of our own from time to time and that should be done.

My community garda has told me that when calls to a door, a parent will argue that no way was his or her son or daughter the person he had to pull out of a drunken crowd to stop a fight. That has happened in high profile cases, particularly in Dublin, where the parents would not believe that their sons were responsible for the vandalism done. In that regard, I am sure we would all have something to contribute to the debate.

There are families throughout the country who are not well off but it is not members of those families who stagger out of the nightclub or the superpub at midnight or 1 a.m., rather it is members of families who are well off. What excuse have they for such behaviour? They have had the benefit of education and yet, as P. J. Stone said, they behave like drunken louts. We are tolerant of such behaviour.

Three or four months ago I had a fracture and had to attend an accident and emergency department. It was 2 p.m. and work in the department came to a halt because of the appearance of a regular customer with three gardaí who were trying to hold him down while three or four hospital staff tried to deal with him. He cursed everybody, including nurses, and that was tolerated. We are too accepting of bad behaviour.

The issue of roads was raised by Deputy Keaveney and I agree there should be a traffic corps. We are all aware that 3,646 people were killed in the North over 25 years. That number of people are being killed in half that time on the roads. People are effectively being murdered on the roads and it is tolerated. If gardaí set up a speed trap near a town, they are considered to be sneaky, yet most of the fatalities involving cyclists and pedestrians happen on the fringes of towns. If gardaí were to set up a speed trap on a motorway, people would not want to be stopped on the one good section of road. We all contribute to the problem and I am concerned about it.

I accept Deputy Stanton's complaint about organised crime gangs, firearms offences, drug trafficking and electronic tagging. That is a legitimate case but let us look at the existing powers. The issue of the admissibility of statements by witnesses has flared up in one city in particular. On the last occasion it happened, we had to set up a branch of the Special Criminal Court. That was one of the other options. People will say they are being harassed and the issue of civil liberties will be trotted out. That is probably the most abused phrase in the country.

There is also the statutory power to preserve a crime scene. As a non-legal person I had thought that right always existed and I find it incredible that it did not. There is a general power in regard to the issue of search warrants. It took the Revenue Commissioners approximately 15 to 20 years to reach the point where they were given the right to obtain search warrants and we have seen the intake from that change. Until then we were told one could not enter private houses and that it was an infringement of people's rights. Where did the infringement of rights of those who did not pay any taxes for generations leave the rights of the rest of us who paid them? In my case, as mentioned previously, the tax rate was 67% and there were nine of us to feed. Since Revenue was given the power to enter and search premises, billions of euro have been taken in. Obviously it was a necessary power.

On the issue of increased detention powers of up to 24 hours for arrestable offences, technical issues have been raised in the past. That people are trained to look at the spot on the wall has created difficulties and needs to be examined. Some amendments were made to the Criminal Justice (Forensic Evidence) Act because we thought it was crazy that the taking of saliva and mouth swabs was prohibited. It is similar to the problem that existed with the dental faculty where those other than orthodontists and dentists were not allowed to make molars or dentures as it was invasion of a person's body. The change in this Bill is a logical step. Deputy Costello and others who have been spokespersons for many years will cite some reason this should not happen but it is the most logical step that has been enacted in a long time.

Like Deputy Stanton I hope Deputy Costello——

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