Tony Gregory (Dublin Central, Independent)

In the context of the Social Welfare Consolidation Bill I want to raise an issue which has been raised already in the debate but about which I feel strongly. I am not sure whether the Minister knows I have been raising it in written parliamentary questions to him over a number of weeks. Quite a number of very elderly people in my constituency contacted me in the past few weeks to say their fuel allowance was being taken from them. I found this quite incredible, first, because I thought the Minister was attempting to be progressive in his role as Minister for social welfare and, second, like many others I am one of those sick listening to us being told that Ireland is now one of the richest countries in the world. I fail to understand in that context how the Minister could agree to a situation where elderly people who have been in receipt of a fuel allowance for many years and who have grown dependent on that allowance are, through some brilliant initiative within his Department, having that allowance removed.

Over my years in this House I have been involved with the Minister's Department on a number of occasions. I remember being involved with it when there was a major heroin problem — I am sure the Acting Chairman, Deputy Costello, will remember this also — and I was anxious that the social welfare investigation branch would deal with the problem of drug dealers who, while buying houses, going on foreign holidays and having all the trappings of wealth, were collecting social welfare. Unfortunately, the investigation branch of the then Department of Social and Family Affairs on that occasion over a number of years was, perhaps for good reason, lax in its pursuit of heroin dealers. It is only when it was shamed and embarrassed into taking action and, unfortunately, when Veronica Guerin was murdered and the Criminal Assets Bureau was set up, that we got any sort of action. Against that background, it is a bit of a bad joke to have the investigation branch of the Department of Social and Family Affairs busying itself getting lists from Dublin City Council and other local authorities of elderly people in their 80s who happen to have subsidised heating.

In that context, I refer to Dublin City Council because the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill which was introduced in response to the drugs crisis provided for co-operation between the city council and the then Department of Social Welfare and other Departments, again to go after serious criminals who were defrauding the Department. It seems, from some of the replies I received on this issue over recent weeks, that the co-operation between the city council and the Department now is aimed at elderly pensioners to take away their fuel allowance.

I find all this quite despicable because people have contacted me directly. These are elderly persons, some of whom are in poor health. They have had — this is, of course, the kernel of the matter — what is called subsidised heating available to them and the Department of Social and Family Affairs, on discovering this dreadful matter, would immediately take steps to remove a fuel allowance from those elderly people who had become dependent on that allowance over many years. I have the replies here. I see the Minister shaking his head. If he wants me to read replies I would be quite happy to do so in specific cases where the fuel allowance has been withdrawn. One elderly woman living in the Ballybough area who had her fuel allowance withdrawn is approximately 80 years of age. In any case, considering the Minister shook his head, I would be delighted to hear, if these people have had their fuel allowance withdrawn, that they will get it back. He might review some of the written parliamentary questions I tabled on their behalf and reinstate their fuel allowance. I will proceed on the basis that their fuel allowance has been removed, however, and just argue the case that whereas to the best of my knowledge the contributory old age pension is €179.30 a week and elderly people living alone would get a living alone allowance of €7.70 a week, the fuel allowance is €12.90. This sum is provided, not all year round but from the end of September to 24 March. Meanwhile, the persons concerned pay €5.84 every week of the year to the city council for their subsidised heating.

The Minister is busy being advised by his officials on this issue but I hope he listens to the case I am making as well as to the case being made by the officials. The case I am making is that it is a totally unnecessary measure to introduce after people have become dependent on an allowance over a number of years and that the people who have been in touch with me are, by and large, local authority tenants who are in schemes that now include some form of subsidised heating.

As the Minister knows, local authority tenants are the poorest people in the State, particularly the elderly. When people get old they feel the limited central heating supplied is inadequate for their needs, perhaps for reasons of age or ill health. They become dependent on electric fires and use them regularly. This is common among the elderly. They pay their bill for the electric fire and, in addition, they pay a subsidy of approximately €6 a week every week of the year on top of their rent for the subsidised heating. In these circumstances, a dependancy on the fuel allowance has arisen among these people as a result of being in receipt of it for years.

Furthermore, they pay for the provided heating 52 weeks of the year. To totally remove the fuel allowance is uncalled for. The attitude seems to be, to hell with them, let them pay their supplement for heating 52 weeks of the year out of their meagre old age pension. The message going out is that the State will not help them at all.

This is the message elderly people got when they went to their post offices over the past few weeks. When they were told they would no longer get their fuel allowance they rang me and other public representatives. This has been happening for some weeks. What will people in the wider community think when they hear that the strongest economy in Europe, the richest country in the world, cannot permit these people to hold onto an allowance of €12.90 over the winter months?

I have made an effort to make the case in a reasonable fashion. I feel strongly about this issue, although not half as strongly as the elderly people who have become dependent on the allowance. I hope the Minister takes another look at the issue. To remove the entire allowance in such an arbitrary fashion, thereby giving the impression that the heating needs of these people have been catered for fully and that they do not have to pay, is wrong. The fuel allowance is only payable for a few months of the year, yet these people pay a subsidy for 52 weeks of the year towards their heating.

Elderly people form the poorer sector of society, many would be in ill health and they need to use electric fires in the bedroom or sitting room to which they are more or less confined 24 hours a day. The Minister is a reasonable public representative — I have never had any reason to believe otherwise — and I hope he will look at the issue again in the context of what I have said. He should check the number of people who were in receipt of a fuel allowance over the past number of years but who have been told in the past few weeks that they will no longer get it.

I have raised a number of cases of people who have been rejected with the Department. I raised the case of one elderly woman from the Ballybough area who did not get her fuel allowance a few weeks ago and was informed in a written reply that she had subsidised heating and would not get it. Tough luck was the general gist of the reply. I find this unchristian, unnecessary and wrong. I ask the Minister to look at the issue again.

See this speech in context