Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

The National Treasury Management Agency commenced its operations when I was Minister for Finance, when the national debt/GNP ratio was frightening to say the least. The resources of the State were being gobbled up, as the Deputy knows, and matters had to be managed in another way. What the Deputy said is correct. We were able to use top-class people who not only had previous experience but had reached the top commercially as regards the management of debt, re-financing, the gilts markets etc. These were people with long experience in those areas who were able to build a significant team.

One of the major problems when the economy improved in the last decade was how to hold on to people. Even though the NTMA was paying significantly more than the normal Civil Service rates, it was not able to match market rates and some of its best and brightest young people — many of them from the public service and the Department of Finance — were attracted to the private sector.

Nonetheless, the NTMA had the flexibility to cope, as it did with the new claims agency, public private partnerships and the new roles created for it by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen. It was able to bring in expertise, to get legal, insurance and other professional advice on a buy-in basis and have access to actuarial and process maintenance consultants in a way that a Government Department could not. Because it possessed such a degree of flexibility and streamlining, the NTMA was given these responsibilities. It is not subject to the same strictures as Departments in the Civil Service, which has given it the necessary freedom to do the job it does.

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