Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

I do not disagree with Deputy Rabbitte's analysis. It is a fact that we do not have the expertise in certain areas, sectors and disciplines. That is undoubtedly true. We saw recently that in IT we do not have the type of expertise that can design a system afresh. I am sure Members of the House are aware that in the private sector, developing and enhancing the quality and content of what a system will deliver is an enormously well-resourced job.

We use consultants in these areas because expecting existing members of staff to do their regular jobs and then do a little work on enhancing a system would not be possible. While they are capable of designing complicated systems, the resources are not available. For many years the Comptroller and Auditor General has stated that we do not have the expertise in many areas. I have no doubt he would consider this one such area. It is not easy to introduce that expertise. One could create specialist appointments, which has been done before. A grade could be created whereby if a person entered in that grade he or she could not move out of it. Ringfencing the position would avoid some of the IR problems. A person would enter as an expert in a particular area and that would save some money on some consultancy fees.

Regarding the point on whether public servants are afraid to act or make a decision, we are lucky to have honest, efficient public servants who are able to carry out their roles. This House has changed dramatically during the past decade, as has the country. Public servants are now subject to the rigours of parliamentary democracy, accountability and scrutiny and are answerable for the enormous amount of money, approximately €42 billion, being spent.

It is in people's nature to make the best possible decisions. As we have seen during the past few years, when things go wrong they and the Government get it in the neck. However, while it is a fact that people are more careful and cautious, that is not the primary reason for it. Decisions have become far more complex. In many situations involving State contracts, public servants deal with outside agencies and sophisticated companies with vast resources, expertise and specialists. They deal with experienced professional people on matters such as procurement and cost structures and they must be careful. In terms of contracts for roads and rail, for example, public servants have to deal with professionals from companies which have vast resources and expertise and specialists.

Most of the Irish professional procurement agencies are linked to international offices. Increasingly when I chair the cross-departmental team on infrastructure, I see companies bringing with them gurus who have completed megabuck contracts from Spain, France or Germany. Our public servants must deal with these people and it is not easy. To ensure they get it right they seek whatever advice they can. That is in the ethos of people trying to do their best. They do it to protect not themselves, but the Departments and finances, and they do it in as sophisticated a way as possible. Their attitude is not that they will not make a decision in order to avoid making a mistake.

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