Gay Mitchell (Dublin South Central, Fine Gael)

If one looks at the prison population in Mountjoy Prison, the majority, some two thirds, come from five identifiable areas in Dublin. When discussing disadvantaged areas in Dublin, we cannot say we do not know where they are. When I was Minister of State with responsibility for local development, we designated those areas in Dublin that are disadvantaged, putting partnership boards into them. The drugs ministerial taskforce, of which I was a member, applied the local taskforces on the same basis. We know from income, participation in second and third level education and social welfare benefit statistics, where in Dublin the difficult areas are and where particular attention must be paid.

The one set of people who do not know much about these areas are judges. I am not having a go at judges per se but few of them have grown up in these areas or even had occasion to visit them. Most Members by being involved in these communities are aware of what is happening in them, while judges do not have much of an idea. Sometimes, they make decisions on mistaken beliefs. A programme must be encouraged by the courts' officers to encourage judges, particularly those in the lower courts, to spend some time in these disadvantaged areas. They would learn, for example, that one or two families can turn a beautiful estate of 70 houses into a hell for the other residents. Sometimes, judges look for unrealistic evidence to come down on those making life hell for other residents.

Some engagement must take place with judges where, as part of their duties, they spend some time in these areas finding out what it is like on the ground. Judges have an input that will be helpful. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform knows about the BASE youth development in Ballyfermot from having been involved in its launch. All members of the Government and anyone who wishes to tackle the crime problem should visit that project. While it has not yet opened, its development team is in place. Usually, when youth clubs are built, items such as snooker tables or table tennis facilities are installed and are welcome. However, in this case the people involved in the club in conjunction with the public authorities did some research. For example, the club will have facilities for cutting CDs to facilitate music writing as well as other creative ideas that will attract children and young people to it. Children and young people now want more than was available to us when we were young. They have too many distractions. If they can be attracted to facilities like the BASE facility, we might be able to divert their energies in a positive way. The House should consider how many BASE-type projects can be got up and running in all 11 partnership board areas in Dublin. Thereafter, we should examine the possibility of introducing them in other locations. This is the way to divert many of the energies to which I referred earlier.

In Question No. 430 of 4 October 2005, I asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he would make a statement on the level of recidivism in prisons in Ireland. He replied:

It is regrettable that accurate figures relating to the rates of recidivism in the prisoner population are not available at the present time. Since taking office however, I have sought to address this deficit through a major research project which is currently being undertaken by the institute of criminology in University College Dublin in co-operation with my Department.

I do not know when the study was undertaken. It might have been after I tabled the question. The Minister continued:

It is hoped that the findings will present an accurate picture of recidivism which, in turn, will assist and shape the way we manage prison sentences in the future. I understand that the findings of this research are expected in early 2007.

How can we address any issue regarding criminal activity if we do not know something as basic as the rate of recidivism? This is not the first time I have spoken in the House about statistics. I introduced a Private Member's Bill on crime statistics. Last year, I spoke in a debate on crime without making any party political points. I spent my time discussing how the former Mayor of New York, Rudy Giuliani, turned things around in that city. In particular, I outlined the system used in New York to measure crimes so they could measure their level of success in dealing with crime. The Minister has been in office for three years. If we do not know something as basic as the recidivism rate in prisons by now, how can we restore law and order? It is farcical that such basic information is not available to the Minister.

All law and no order is farcical. A special committee within the Law Reform Commission should be established to conduct annual audits of criminal justice laws, in order to protect the rights of law-abiding citizens. This is desirable because 60 criminal justice Acts have passed through the Dáil between 19 February 1985 and 8 March 2005. What is the House debating? Another item of legislation, namely, the Criminal Justice Bill 2004. The mind boggles that we believe issues can be dealt with simply through legislation. During that 20-year period, 17 of those laws related to issues such as the Decommissioning Act, extradition and the Children Act. However, the remaining 43 were specifically aimed at creating new powers for the State.

Despite such Acts, headline crime has risen by 10% since 1985, while the number of gardaí per head of population fell from one to 331 to one to 360 in the same period. The number of headline crimes per head of population increased during that period from 39 to 40 incidents per head, as the following figures indicate. In 1985, the number of headline crimes was 91,285. The population was 3.54 million so the rate of headline crime per head of population was 39:1. Garda manpower then stood at 10,700 giving a rate of one garda for every 331 people. In 2004, the number of headline crimes rose from 91,285 to 100,000. The population had risen to 4.04 million so the rate of headline crime per head of population was 40:1. As Garda manpower then stood at 11,248, the number of people for every garda had risen to 360.1:1.

Throughout that period and every time there is an outcry about crime, we are promised new legislation. These laws apply to all citizens, be they law-abiding or law breakers. In most years, these laws were passed at a rate of two or three per year, but in 1997, four such Acts were passed, in 1990, five, and in 1993, six.

The State must keep abreast of new forms of crime and must equip its institutions to tackle criminals. However, we must also remember that we live in a democracy and the rights of law-abiding citizens must also be protected. There are too many examples of how Governments and their agencies can abuse power, both in Ireland and abroad. The Constitution requires that there be checks and balances to protect the public interest. Therefore, I suggest that a special committee of the Law Reform Commission be set up to audit annually the compendium of laws that have been passed to address various issues whenever Ministers for Justice, Equality and Law Reform come under pressure.

Last year, I asked the Minister to set out——

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