Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

Yes, but if Deputy Rabbitte had heard all I said yesterday, he would have realised that I was pointing out that a decade ago the health boards decided they needed to move from a manual payroll system to a proper information communications technology system. They did not move on with this in 1994 or 1995. In 2000 they returned to the issue and got approval for a more extensive system. Hay consultants costed the system at €100 million. Up until the end of 2004, it has spent €116 million, €16 million more than projected. They projected that to complete it would take €56 million. Unfortunately, they thought it could be done in three years when that was not possible. I do not know the technical complexities of this.

Approximately, 40,000 people out of 140,000 people were brought into the payroll system. This was not putting money down the lavatory bowl. What has been achieved is useful but not as extensive as it was believed it would be. Following consultations that went on for the last several months between the Departments of Finance and Health and Children and the Health Service Executive, it has been decided that the way in which it has been done in the past few years, and given the excessive costs to Deloitte & Touche, should be reassessed and they should find another way. The executive still needs a proper payroll and management system.

Down the years, the health boards had not been able to tell the Departments of Finance or Health and Children how many staff they had. There was a myriad different rules and procedures. The Hay report pointed out that even if the health boards could get on top of the reduction in absenteeism at the time, they would save €56 million per annum. At the time it was believed that by spending €100 million or even €150 million, it could be dealt with in a three year period. This made sense at the time. It was looked at by Hay and Gartland and they believed these were the best consultants for the project. It has not worked as originally believed.

I am not in the House to dump on every official in every health board or Department that tried to help bring in a good system. I am not a computer expert but it is disingenuous to say that when people tried but did not get a proper management system right for a payroll of €7 billion, then they are all a crowd of nitwits. I do not believe they are. They were trying to do their best.

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