Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

Exactly. We are doing it more successfully than anybody else. The Deputy will have noted unprecedented rises in current spending on health, education and social welfare under this Administration. These rises are greater than any in the history of the State. Increases to pensioners under this Administration are greater than any others the Deputy will remember. The resources being made available under the current mix of policies are greater than they ever were. The Deputy suggests we should put at risk the ability to continue the economic activity that funds these resources so we can look after all our people. I do not agree with that economic philosophy, which the Deputy obviously holds.

To increase the indebtedness of the country one can go to the people to seek support for doing so. Had the Government borrowed all the money the Deputy said we should have borrowed for capital purposes, or were he holding the reins of power, we would now have an interest bill amounting to approximately €1.3 billion or €1.4 billion more than it amounts to today, and therefore we would not have €1.4 billion per year to spend on improved health, education and social welfare services on a sustainable basis. The Deputy is entitled to his opinions but I am here to defend very strongly the mix of policies the Government has provided over the past seven or eight years, which, on the basis of the figures on both the current and capital sides, led to unprecedented investment in all the areas he mentioned.

We know exactly what we got for being highly indebted in the 1970s and 1980s, namely, high unemployment and high emigration. There are thousands of people in America, Australia and the United Kingdom who prove where that policy leads. It leads nowhere. Now that we have the ability to provide employment for our people, we must also remain prudent fiscally to ensure we can remain competitive, keep people in employment and give them a greater disposable income, and provide greater resources to meet all the social needs to which the Deputy alluded. We can now do so in a sustainable way which would not be possible if we adopted the Deputy's approach. His approach was tried and it failed.

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