Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)

That is wonderful. We can expect that all trials in the near future will not have that element where there is no technical back-up for statements that appear as part of the evidence and we will have the tape recording presented to court as support for any statements made.

We discussed having a root and branch examination of the Garda Síochána, and we must have such an examination of how it deals with crime scenes and crimes in general. The only crimes solved, except for a small number, are where people make confessions and people admit to them. In many cases this admission is to a lesser offence. It would be interesting to have proper statistical analysis and audit of what happens in our courts to see the level of Sherlock Holmes or FBI style success rate. It is extremely low.

Where there is pressure on the Garda Síochána it relies on admissions, extractions, questioning and interrogations. This, in many cases, has given a bad name to the methodologies used from the time of the heavy gang in the 1970s through to some activities at the present time. How could one have possibly extracted a confession from Frank McBrearty Jr. to a murder that never happened? How did that occur? Where is the answer to that? What pressure was brought to bear on him or who wrote the confession? If there was no murder there could not be a confession to a murder unless the gentleman in question was so perverse that in some strange way he wanted to take a dive of some description in relation to the criminal justice system. It is not tenable or logical. These serious questions must be answered.

Deputy Jim O'Keeffe raises the point that gardaí, in the performance of their duties, must have a good quality communications system. That is essential as the last thing one needs is to have criminals roaming the country with the ability to tune in to Garda wavelengths and listen to conversations. I understand that gardaí must often operate from their own mobiles because there has not been sufficient upgrading of Garda technology.

We could extend this amendment to not just cover the recording of crime and the collection and examination of data, but to include the work that must be carried out on that data, how comprehensively it can be done, and the forensic mechanisms available to examine the wide variety of data now available. This would enable us to move away from human to human, or garda to suspect, crime solution.

We are not at the cutting edge in this area which means we still rely on old methodologies that can give rise to many complaints. With our new Garda ombudsman or ombudsman commission, or whatever it will be when we finally leave here tonight, we must ensure gardaí can operate efficiently and effectively without entering a grey twilight zone of placing undue pressure on people to make statements they would not otherwise make as the only means of solving a crime.

I do not know if the Minister has plans in that area or whether Deputy Commissioner Fitzgerald's brief arising from the Donegal saga deals with it. I know his work is divided into approximately half a dozen headings to improve Garda operations and ensure the mistakes outlined by the Morris report are not made again. I hope one of the key areas he addresses is that of forensics and how modern technology can be employed to deal with crime. If that alone were done, and the Garda Síochána's view of crime solution was shifted from extracting a response from a person to dealing with the technological aspects that arise in every crime scene, we would have a good day's work done in improving the effectiveness of the Garda Síochána. It would also reduce the number of complaints forthcoming from people taken into custody or questioned.

Under the Criminal Justice Bill the Minister gives power to extend the period for which people can be detained for the purpose of questioning from eight hours to 24 hours without arrest. That is a serious change in the manner in which business is done. Up to 1984 people could not be questioned without being arrested. Now it will be the norm. It means many people will be brought in for questioning where evidence may not be as strong as it was in the past when arrest was necessary. We are coming in to a new age. If the Minister is to introduce the Criminal Justice Bill with all the extra powers it confers on the Garda Síochána and with the restrictions it imposes on citizens' rights in many areas, it is important he examines this area to try to obviate the need for the face to face activities that give rise to so many problems. There is much scope in the Bill in that respect.

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