Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

In any circumstances, it is imperative that the Minister of any Department should be capable of answering questions honestly in the House. If information is withheld from the Minister, for one reason or another, the Minister does not need legislation in order to determine what to do. This has been well established by precedent.

The problem now is, apparently, that three or four years ago when the Minister was asked a question, he gave the correct answer. Or, did he? We are discussing serious legislation that will impact, for the foreseeable future, on the lives of the Garda Síochána and the people. Therefore, we must determine who told the true story at that time. Was system or ministerial failure involved? Did somebody decide that it was not in the interest of the Oireachtas to know the answer to the question? If this is so, who was it who decided to withhold the true information? This House is entitled to the answer.

The information we have is that the Minister indicated at the time that he had the particular report. If he had, presumably some action would follow. We do not know. More recently we have had a correction that just an abridged version or summary of the report was available at that time. Do we know? Which version is correct? How are we expected to proceed in a debate on serious and fundamental amendments to this legislation against a backdrop of failing to get that vital information? The only way we can do that is to appeal to the Chair and its office to try to get that information for us.

This is also in the interest of any Minister in order for him or her to be able to stand over the information he or she is given. If it arises that the information given is not correct, for whatever reason, procedures must be followed instantly to protect democracy. We are slipping down the democratic ladder if we depart from that.

I suggest that the Chair should bring to the attention of both Ministers the content of the report in the Irish Examiner today. It sets out clearly the responsibilities of civil servants to Ministers, Governments and the Oireachtas. This has been clearly stated in recent days. If this debate proceeds without a clear and unambiguous clarification as to the veracity of those issues, a long shadow will be cast over this legislation.

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