Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)

The Minister's approach is extremely disappointing. He is praising the systems which were described as not working in a recent report he presented to us. The report stated that the roll out of the management information system is still at a relatively early stage and that the link between financial analysis and decision making remains relatively weak. If we want to support public servants who are advocating change, we must have a system that illustrates that work at this level. All of the systems described by the Minister, such as the strategic management books, are never narrowed down to five simple targets. I asked Ministers what were their top five strategic targets. Not one Minister could name those targets, nor could any of them describe progress for any of their targets. However, the Minister is trying to present this system as perfect. He is unable to display the targets of any Department, nor can he compare one Department with another, nor show the policies put in place to deliver the targets. He claims that is asking too much and that it already has been done, but I do not see it and I try harder than most to disentangle these various strategic management documents.

I do not believe the Minister of State. I do not see any Department offering high level targets to which it is committed. Until we see that, we will not see the sort of change that has been heralded as necessary in the various reports of the SMI. The presentation by senior management of the SMI was extremely disappointing. They had to admit that they were way behind in setting high level targets that would be monitored and delivered.

The Minister of State extolled the expenditure review initiative. I do not know how he has the neck to claim that it is contributing greatly to the improvement of public decision making, when the secretaries told us that less than 20% of reports to be done were actually delivered in the last three year period. The Department of Health and Children, having spent €11 billion, was exempted from any value for money audits because it was too busy carrying out reforms. What sort of a system allows Departments away with that? The Minister of State then claims that we have an exemplary system and anything demanded by the Opposition would be far too burdensome. That is not the case and the Minister of State is deceiving himself. We need a more honest debate about delivering results. We need complete reform on the way the Estimates are presented and a reform of the accountability demanded by senior management in the public service. It is not acceptable that the budget for the Department of Health and Children can be trebled yet no target is set for what that will achieve. No targets are set and none is delivered. When Ministers are under pressure in this House, they will scramble to find the nuggets that look good and will ignore the rest. That represents the level of accountability we have, which is just cute hoorism. That is not good enough in a modern democratic State.

I do not pretend that this amendment is perfect. However, I am disappointed that the tone of the Minister's response is very defensive, claiming that everything in the garden is rosy and that the last eight years have been wonderful, unlike the bad old days.

See this speech in context