Gerard Murphy (Cork North West, Fine Gael)

The Criminal Justice Bill and the Garda Síochána Bill are major Bills that will have significant impact on our criminal justice system. The latter is reaching its final Stages in the Oireachtas and will likely pass all Stages by the summer recess. However, as has been said this morning, the Minister has promised a debate in the House on the second report of Mr. Justice Morris. That the changes proposed in the Garda Síochána Bill are thoroughly reviewed in light of this report is important. Having said this, the Bill goes some way towards answering Mr. Justice Morris's criticisms, particularly by way of the introduction of the Ombudsman Commission and the Garda inspectorate.

I welcome the development of a new emphasis on community policing as it will be an invaluable tool for the criminal justice system. This is a long-term project and its benefit for crime figure reductions may not be seen for many years to come. The Minister and this Government have been losing the battle against crime until now. Muggings, robberies, increased drug trafficking and organised crime frighten and terrify many of our citizens. The Government has been in power for almost eight years. While in Opposition during the two years prior to that time, all the current Minister spoke about was zero tolerance regarding crime. However, only after eight years has it been realised that crime must be tackled at its source and that preventive measures are the most successful. Hence, the new emphasis on community policing.

No one can accuse the Minister of not introducing enough legislation. We have buckets of it, most of which is not workable and of little effect because it is not resource-based. Consequently, it has no effect on real criminals. The new reliance on laws and regulations is having an effect on ordinary citizens. A phrase that is commonly used by an increasing number of ordinary citizens is that we are living in an open prison. This feeling is not due solely to legislation and amending legislation being introduced by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. The feeling has been created by the raft of legislation introduced by the Minister alongside what appears to be more and more regulations springing from the Departments of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Agriculture and Food, Finance, Transport and so forth on a daily basis.

This perception is not helped by regulations and legislation that are badly thought out. Initially, we had legislation that allowed our children to eat with us in pub restaurants until 9 p.m. only. Some months after this, the time changed to 10 p.m. and, by the same stroke of the all powerful Minister's pen, the summer season was extended from 1 May to 30 September. The Minister also introduced a raft of regulations to clear up any misunderstandings there may have been about the original legislation. "Separate area" became a legal term. Under 18s could not hold a non-alcoholic disco in a bar or nightclub but, several months later, it became allowable if a new raft of regulations introduced by the Minister could be understood and implemented. We are reaching the stage when hoteliers, youth workers and gardaí must be experts in law to keep up with these changes and interpretations.

One of the most serious problems for motorists is the number of fatalities and injuries on our roads. The insurance industry blames these for the massive increases in insurance prices, which affect everyone's personal budgets and the country's competitiveness as a whole. The penalty points system was to be the solution. Legislation was introduced and worked for a few months but the Government again failed to properly think out the legislation and provide the necessary resources to enforce it. The number of fatalities and injuries increased gradually until it is now as high if not higher than it was before the introduction of the points system.

New speed limits were introduced recently without reclassifying regional roads. Many parts of the country do not have national primary roads or motorways. In some cases, they have exceptionally good regional roads, on which the general public is now obliged to drive at 80 km/h on journeys of up to 200 kilometres. Other smaller byroads where speed limits should be 50 km/h or less have speed limits of 80 km/h. When one raises this issue, the answer given is that these roads are being reclassified, most of which should be done by Christmas. How can the general public have respect for and confidence in the law when its experience of these Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats legislators is that they will probably get something wrong the first time or will not provide the resources to implement the regulations and laws they introduce?

In light of this background, I will address some of the issues arising from this Bill. Following the collapsed Liam Keane murder trial, there were calls from the general public, the Garda and the Opposition for more powers for the Garda Síochána. This call occurred despite having introduced much significant legislation due to our history and successive Governments' efforts to quash terrorism. After the murder of Veronica Guerin, there were more calls for greater powers to be given to the Garda and for more legislation. Further legislation followed the atrocity in Omagh. One would think that these laws together would be sufficient to contain the lawlessness we face today but such is not the case. The general public and the Minister himself feel that events are out of control. Murders, robberies and muggings are constantly in the headlines. The Minister continues to get the support from a large section of the public and the Opposition because everyone hopes that what the Minister refers to as a final and comprehensive package of legislation will solve the problem eventually.

In desperation, the Opposition and sections of the general public support this Bill. Due to this feeling, people are prepared to accept laws that infringe upon their individual rights to a certain extent. Some aspects of this Bill seem reasonable in current circumstances. There is a statutory power to preserve crime scenes, a general power regarding search warrants and the curtailing of the right to freedom by increasing detention periods to up to 24 hours for arrestable offences. On closer examination, these are worrying changes.

A person's home enjoys special status under the Constitution. It is protected by Article 40.5, which clearly states that "the dwelling of every citizen is inviolable and shall not be forcibly entered...". There is no doubt that taking the power from the Judiciary, an independent arm of the State, and giving it to superintendents of the Garda Síochána considerably weakens this constitutional provision. It puts power totally in the hands of law enforcers, with no judicial or lay involvement. This may work well when the institutions of the State and the Garda Síochána are beyond reproach. However, there have been times in the past — and perhaps there may be in the future — when this was not the case. It is at times of difficulty that constitutional rights protect the ordinary citizen from potential abuses by the State and its law enforcement agencies.

The basic civil right to liberty will be eroded by the extension of detention periods. Again, this is not such a serious problem when organs of the State are beyond reproach. However, the right to freedom and the presumption of innocence are fundamental civil liberties designed to protect the ordinary citizen when State institutions are suspect or law enforcement excessive.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform admits that changes in the law allowing the Garda Síochána to take bodily samples, such as saliva, from those in custody will help to create a DNA database. I accept that this is a debate for another day and another Bill, as argued by the Minister, but the changes in this Bill are laying the foundation stones for a DNA database.

Section 15, part 3 is to be welcomed in the present circumstances. There is no doubt that subversive organisations and barbaric criminal gangs, not that there is any difference between them, have too often intimidated witnesses to such an extent that they fear for their lives if they appear in court to give evidence. As the Minister pointed out, the need for provisions of this nature was highlighted by the collapse of the Keane murder trial, when witnesses who had previously given statements to the Garda Síochána recanted and refused to give evidence against the accused in court.

However, agreeing to this provision violates the right of a person to confront his accuser. Powers like these should be used sparingly and only on a temporary basis and therein lies another problem. Once legislation is passed, it is seldom repealed. Most of the anti-terrorism Acts introduced over the years are still part of our legal system. One solution to the problem of the infringement of civil liberties that this Bill creates is to build in a clear provision that these sections will be thoroughly reviewed on a two yearly basis.

On section 30, the Fine Gael spokesman on Justice, Deputy O'Keeffe, has made it clear that the party does not believe that arms control should be dealt with in the context of this Bill. Fine Gael will, if necessary, introduce a Private Members' Bill to deal with the firearms issue in a far wider and more comprehensive manner.

On the face of it, section 29 appears to be reasonable in providing for on-the-spot fines for public order offences. The question is, however, what is a public order offence? There are many different interpretations. The Garda Síochána and judges disagree on this issue on a daily basis. Individual gardaí will differ in their understanding of what constitutes a public order offence. Some members of the Garda Síochána will maintain that a group of young people arriving into their home town, having won a match, singing and celebrating after dark, is a public order offence. Other members of the force would totally disagree with this. Therefore, very strict guidelines must be given to the Garda Síochána to ensure an even-handed approach to the issuing of on-the-spot fines.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has not clarified whether payment of an on-the-spot fine will result in a criminal or other record for the person involved. In this context, we are mainly dealing with young people, many of whom still live with their parents, are in education and dependent on their parents. Many more have full-time or part-time jobs. They might decide that, even though they consider themselves innocent, the easiest solution is to pay the fine. Then there would be no need for explanations to their parents and no risk of exposure in the local press. A record of any offence can have serious consequences for young people. It can affect their work, educational or travel prospects. I urge the Minister to examine these issues and confirm that the payment of on-the-spot fines will not create a record for the individual involved.

If the introduction of new laws would solve our law and order problems, then we would live in a crimeless society at this stage. We should look in other directions for solutions — better education, particularly at primary school level; better sporting facilities for young people; more gardaí on the streets; more community gardaí, well resourced and independent from the mainstream force; a re-vamp of the Garda training regime, to introduce more specialisation and professionalism; and more equipment and technology of all descriptions. Otherwise, we will perpetuate the myth that legislation will solve our problems.

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