Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

I will move on to the issue of gun law. For the past five or six years, the appearance of a variety of guns in the pursuit of crime has become commonplace. I do not know how many times this must happen before it is decided something should be done. There should be an add-on or addendum to the Bill in this regard.

A person does not saw the barrel off a shotgun to convert it into an electric razor or to use it as a telescope. It is done for a particular purpose — to kill people. I stand over the actions of the Garda Síochána in regard to a recent robbery, after which many began wondering whether firearms should have been used. The fact is that people with guns were at that place, on that day, to kill people. The guns were for no other purpose; they were not to scratch an ear but to kill people. It is tough. What resulted is what happens in that kind of situation. Apparently, at long last, the Minister suddenly realised: "Oh, gosh. There are serious guns out here. What is the problem? Let us do something about it."

The designation of a crime scene is dealt with in section 4. The issue has much wider connotations than are recognised or understood, for example, the designation of a crime scene in a certain place in County Donegal, which was referred to in the report we all read of this morning. In that case, how was it decided there would not be a crime scene? Why was the crime scene not preserved? Am I to presume that the need for the Bill is as a result of that case? If so, it is a mistake. Adequate legislation was already in place to deal with such matters. Countless crime scenes have been preserved throughout the country and the world without any such legislation. I am not sure how section 4(3) defines a crime scene. For example, an area where it could be concluded a crime had taken place might be designated as a crime scene. Various issues follow on from there. To what extent is it intended to embellish this section and to operate it? I do not know.

The Minister of State interjected during the contribution of his Fianna Fáil colleague some minutes ago in regard to local authorities and administration at local level. He should know that the local authorities are seriously and sadly lacking in regard to the job they have already been given to do, for a variety of reasons. They are about as capable of running other services as the House is capable of debating a critical issue at the time it arises, which is fairly incapable. When we deal with such matters, we need to think seriously about the root causes and what can be done in this regard.

I refer to juvenile crime. I have found with increasing frequency that schools and teachers can identify children who might become involved in juvenile crime at an early stage. The children might have behavioural, attention or communication difficulties or minor disabilities, but not sufficiently to justify having special needs treatment. In that situation, a child becomes insular, protective and a loner, and will seek attention in many and various ways. While I am not suggesting children are not entitled to do this, I point to the pattern of behaviour.

We hear references to children wearing hooded jackets. This is a sign of withdrawal. One does not have to be a rocket scientist or psychologist to figure that out. Why do they do this? It is not necessarily to ape "the general" or somebody who walked around with a cover over his head; it is simply that the child is withdrawing into himself or herself, and seeking refuge.

Anti-social behaviour orders will not do much to deal with this. In fact, they could alienate the young entirely. We were all young once and can remember that time, despite it being long ago — longer for me than for the Minister of State, who might remember it more vividly. However, if a young person has an unhappy incident with the law, it can taint his or her attitude for ever. This is a potentially serious problem which society cannot afford at present.

A UK police chief constable on his retirement some years ago spoke about law enforcement, penalty points and the civic-spirited attitude of the public to the law, which was always supportive. However, he said the increased incidence of motorist pursuit had resulted in far less co-operation with the police than ever before.

I am worried about anti-social behaviour and am fully aware that something must be done. I have received countless complaints from elderly people who have lived in their own houses all their lives who are now afraid to walk the footpaths because of the antics of a few people.

Deputy McGuinness and others mentioned the development of café bars. I cannot understand how this notion was conjured up. People cannot smoke in enclosed spaces and have been driven out on to the footpaths, although I do not know whether they will be allowed to smoke there either. Café bars will be an extension of drinking emporiums on to the footpath. Is this a desirable development at this time? I am as liberal as anybody else, but for some unknown reason the more accessible drinking becomes the worse becomes people's behaviour. It is virtually impossible to control the situation.

I do not blame young people for all of the problems. Also to blame are the huge establishments who pour 600 or 700 people out on to streets at the same time late at night or early in the morning. These people congregate outside, which is when the trouble starts. I dispute the Minister of State's suggestion that the influence of publicans is changing our view. Publicans have done their best and have been very successful in ensuring that the law is observed. However, there is little control over establishments which pour hundreds of people out on to the footpaths in the early hours of the morning. Garda cars and vans are called because disputes arise in this situation. The more people that come out of such establishments at the same time the greater the opportunity for incidents to occur.

One does not solve crime with new legislation, unless a technical issue pops up and is evident to all. I get suspicious whenever somebody introduces legislation to do something that should have been done before. This is a smokescreen behind which everybody can hide and say we can do nothing, our hands are tied so we need new legislation. Over the years, Departments have sought legislation to address issues that seemed to stare everybody in the face. However, the issues continued afterwards and still nothing happened. Nothing will happen unless the will is there to enforce the legislation.

From time to time the Minister has lectured us on the various means of dealing with illegal behaviour. One of crime's greatest assets in recent years has been the ability of criminals to convert their activities into solid assets. They have been able to buy property, launder ill-gotten gains, live a high lifestyle and achieve respectability on the basis of funding obtained by illicit means. I have tabled a series of questions on the issue over the years, as I have regarding gun law, organised crime and the spread of the drugs problem. The issues are inter-related. As it stands, there is not much in this Bill that will address them.

The Criminal Assets Bureau has been successful, but is it adequately resourced to do its job? If one considers the number of major robberies on this island in the past six months, the amount of stolen money must be close to €70 million or €80 million. That is a large amount and has much influential buying power. However, it is virtually certain that all of it has been laundered and is now legitimate. It has been converted into real estate, hotels and various business premises and is now respectable money. Are adequate resources in place to deal with the issue? As I said earlier, senior gardaí should be deployed to deal with these pressing and urgent matters. They should be fully aware that there is support for them to do so.

A number of major criminals have multiple investments. There have been some 5,148 suspicious financial transactions in the past 12 months. Of those, only a quarter were investigated. This is appalling considering there is €60 million to €70 million of illegal money floating around. It represents serious neglect on the part of the Minister.

We must deal with the issue of juvenile crime sooner rather than later. Arresting every child or teenager in the country will not solve the problem. Neither will it be resolved by introducing a custodial system that does not have an educational element. It is necessary to identify the children at risk in our schools with a view to giving them encouragement, back-up and education.

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