Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

That is exactly what has happened. At the start of the capital programme there was a view that the private sector would wish to be involved in many of the infrastructure projects. In many cases private partners did not become involved and in those cases where they did so, while I do not agree with their case, they argued that if they tender for a project and lose out, the cost of tendering, preparing design specifications etc. is very high. However, we cannot just pick a company and give it the contract; there is no way around that. Perhaps in a bigger country such as the UK, which has some experience of this, or other European countries it may have worked better. Portugal has made considerable use of this method, as has Spain. However, conditions in these countries are different. These countries decide to build a road and they get on with building it. They operate to very different time-lines and without constraints.

For many of those reasons they are not interested. Many of the companies that showed an interest at the start are not as interested now. The Minister met them earlier in the year and listened to their complaints about the present system. He has considered revising the system to at least streamline it in the areas where there is an interest.

Even though the roads programme has greatly increased since 1999 when it was laid down — roads completed and roads started total approximately 580 km — only a small number of them are PPPs. I do not see that position changing except in the niche areas in which there seems to be considerable work and interest. I do not believe people want toll roads throughout the country. Not many companies tender for PPPs in any area. Even with the regulations being eased, I do not believe many of them will be taken up. Unless it makes absolute sense, the Department of Finance would rather complete these under the traditional capital programme.

We have convinced the Department of Finance, and everyone is agreed, to extend the programmes into multi-annual programmes. It was not that many years ago, as the Deputy will recall, that there was an annual programme and one never really knew where one was going. Now there are multi-annual, five-year programmes. In transport, it makes great sense to do things over a longer period, and the Department has been convinced of that. It makes far more sense and achieves far better value for the State to do it on a five- or ten-year basis, and that has been agreed.

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