Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)

It is my intention that any repayments will not impact on current pension entitlements. I will bring forward proposals in this regard when I have full details of the repayments scheme. The repayments scheme has not yet been signed off by Government or finally approved and as soon as we have that scheme finalised, I will be able to bring forward proposals to give effect to my intention that repayments will not impact on current pension entitlements.

We have yet to take a decision in the case of beneficiaries of an estate of deceased persons in respect of which a repayment is due. That decision will be taken in the light of the content of the repayment scheme. I confirm to the Deputy today that there will not be any impact on current pension entitlements. Complications arise where the money is paid to an estate and there are beneficiaries from that estate. I am anxious that we align our thinking with whatever final decisions are taken in the area of inheritance tax and taxation generally. I will do everything possible to ring-fence whatever the repayment scheme brings people so that it does not affect their social welfare entitlements but I put down a marker that there has yet to be a decision in the case of money paid to an estate of a person as opposed to a living pensioner. In the case of a pensioner I am happy to give that categoric assurance. In the other case, we have to do some additional work on it.

In the case the Deputy raised where an overpayment is assessed against the estate of a deceased pensioner, I am aware of this issue and I have some sympathy with it. The difficulty is in trying to administer any scheme that would exempt savings which came from one's pension. The basic point the Deputy is making is that if someone saves money from their pension and they either die, their estate is tackled or, in the case of a living person, there is a review of their case, such savings would not be taken into account in any means test. In other words, if they have saved their pension it should not be part of a means test. I do not have a major difficulty with that policy objective. The difficulty is in trying to administer something like that. My advice is that we would then be brought into the business of trying to identify from where a person's savings came and asking a person if those savings come from their pension or elsewhere.

A better way to tackle it is the way I am doing it, which is that I have increased the disregard to €20,000 from €12,000. I did that in recent months, as the Deputy is aware, and there is the additional €8,000 for pensioners. That means that pensioners can save up to €28,000. If we work on that and increase that threshold from time to time, as best we can afford it, that is a better way to exempt savings from affecting one's welfare. I have sympathy with the objective but the logistics of trying to do it are quite difficult. A better way might be to continue to raise the disregard so that they can save more money, from wherever it comes. We are then not brought into the business of asking them where their savings came from; it is more dignified for them also.

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