Pat Carey (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)

Like other speakers, I welcome the Bill and I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak on Second Stage. Before dealing with the detail of the Bill, I wish to pay tribute to the Garda Síochána. It has a very proud record of service to the country since its foundation and it has evolved into quite a modern and well-developed police force. Some members have given great years of service to the force and some have given their lives to protect us. A school colleague of mine, Tony Hickey, who retired as Assistant Commissioner a few weeks ago, was one of the greatest policemen of our time. I wish him a very long and happy retirement.

I listened to many speakers because I was Acting Chairman for some of the debate. I listened to Deputy Crowe extolling the virtues of the Patten report. I regard the Patten report as a very good report. However, the Patten Commission was set up to reorganise a fundamentally dysfunctional police force. To cut to the chase, if Sinn Féin and Deputy Crowe are so enamoured of all the provisions of the Patten Commission's recommendations, why then are they not members of the policing boards and of the district policing partnerships, of which they are such great fans? To be frank, the Chief Constable and his management team has done a really good job. A police force must have the confidence and the co-operation of the community. The PSNI is working towards this goal and the Chief Constable is doing a good job in achieving this.

The Garda Síochána has been policing with the consent and co-operation of the community in this Republic. I acknowledge that improvements need to be made, that deficiencies exist and that reforms are required. It gives me no pleasure to listen to re-enactments of the Morris tribunal activities on night-time radio programmes or to read about them in the newspapers. It is not pleasant to hear about miscarriages of justice which arose due to inadequate or faulty Garda investigations or instances where the Garda has been at fault and has not been prepared to admit its failings.

However, we are not comparing like with like. The Garda Síochána polices with the support of the vast majority of people in the Republic. There are models in parts of the United Kingdom and the United States which we can usefully consider. However, to suggest that everything proposed in Northern Ireland should be replicated in this State is to miss the point. I urge Sinn Féin in the strongest terms and with whatever authority I might have in this House to join wholeheartedly and unreservedly in policing in Northern Ireland. This would be one of the greatest confidence-building measures it could make.

An issue that is constantly raised with me is that of Garda numbers. Two places in which police numbers are tightly regulated and controlled are Northern Ireland and South Africa. I would hold neither of these models as example of good policing. There is no doubt Garda numbers must be increased and the projected expansion to 14,000 is probably inadequate. I presume those involved in strategic management in the Garda and the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform are examining the census figures, which indicate not only a rapidly increasing population but the development of a very diversified population.

Garda recruitment policies should be modified so that the different community interests and ethnic groupings are allowed to contribute to policing. For example, the requirement that gardaí must be competent in Irish must be reconsidered in a thoughtful manner. I am reluctant to discard the Irish language requirement but such issues must be examined if we are to have a police force that reflects all aspects of the community.

We should discuss the provisions of the Bill in a spirit of constructive appraisal of the Garda Síochána. Our objective is to improve policing and we all want to facilitate the modification and fine-tuning of structures devised in different times and social conditions to suit the circumstances of the new century. Several Members observed that emphasis is placed on different aspects of policing in different areas. There may be significant emphasis on community policing in one locality, for example, because there is a senior garda who is driving that almost as a personal interest. Gardaí in another area might concentrate on tackling drug abuse. We must devise a mix of structures which will ensure a coherent form of policing that is fine-tuned to society's needs.

In this context, it is important to note that this legislation is introduced not to undermine but rather to underpin the Garda Síochána and the work it carries out to protect our freedoms as individuals and as a society. The Bill undoubtedly contains the most comprehensive and possibly the most important legislative provisions on policing ever to come before this House. The importance of the legislation, its aims and functions heighten the need to get it right and necessitate the time we have taken to have a comprehensive debate and to receive submissions from interested parties.

I compliment Dublin City Council and the Lord Mayor of Dublin, Councillor Michael Conaghan, on the establishment of its commission on policing. The recommendations of that commission will contribute to a further enlightenment in respect of the provisions of this Bill. I was in Ballymun earlier this week for a meeting of the local safety forum at which the Lord Mayor outlined his vision of policing and the interaction between local authorities and the Garda. This consultation represented a model of best practice in that it involved the Garda chief superintendent, the superintendent, an inspector and a sergeant from the Garda drugs squad, together with an assistant city manager, the local area manager, representatives of residents' associations and delegates from the Health Service Executive.

The main recommendations of the Lord Mayor's commission have been well rehearsed elsewhere. The Minister has taken on board many of them in the area of engaging with local authorities by giving them a say and inviting them to be partners in the development of a consensus policing arrangement in their communities. This is the way forward but it is important that we get this process right. A similar forum I attended in another locality last month turned out to be a very unfocused discussion which lacked coherence. In effect, it was a whingeing forum for those present.

One key difference between these two experiences was that the Ballymun meeting was attended by the most senior representatives responsible for the allocation of resources from the local authority and the Garda. The other meeting was attended by members of the excellent community policing unit but nobody more senior than the sergeant and inspector. The Minister should bear this in mind when framing statutory instruments and secondary provisions in the Bill. It is important that we ensure the provisions in this regard are adequate if we are serious about engaging local authorities and community interests.

The Bill's proposals reflect the outcome of a review of the Garda Síochána carried out under the Government's strategic management initiative. In doing so, it aims for greater clarity, democratic accountability and transparency within the force. It is fair to say we are experiencing a period in which confidence within the Garda is diminished because of lack of transparency. The implementation of this Bill can effect a change in this regard provided it enjoys the goodwill of all those involved. We can enact as many legislative provisions as we desire but without the support of the Garda authorities and staff representative organisations, the three-legged stool of policing will not work.

The encouragement and receipt of submissions from interested parties over a period was an important element of the development of this Bill. It is to be hoped that during the debate on Committee Stage some further refinements will be possible. The Bill sets out for the first time in law the functions and objectives of the Garda. The roles of and relationship between the Minister and the Garda Commissioner are defined openly and transparently. For example, it provides that the Minister is entitled to set policing priorities. In addition, it puts in place new and comprehensive reporting requirements for certain matters, including the plans of the Commissioner for the year ahead and his or her assessment of the previous year.

There is an argument that there should be an independent Garda authority. The Minister has contended that this would preclude this House's role as the forum to which policing is directly accountable. I am not certain I agree with that argument and hope it might be possible to review it. It is possible for this Parliament to have an oversight function in policing without being in any way restrictive in the negative sense.

The Bill brings the management structures of the force into the 21st century, particularly in respect of staff appointments and reviews. The Garda Commissioner is being assigned new powers and responsibilities regarding the distribution of the force, financial matters and civilian support staff. These new powers are balanced by more comprehensive accountability measures, including the establishment of a statutory audit committee with independent members. Why does such a committee not exist already? It should be a given in any organisation, be it a policing organisation or commercial body. Nonetheless, if we must set such provisions in stone to have a policing force in which we all can have confidence, let us go down that route. I recall few enough examples of questionable practices in terms of management or accountability. There may be examples from earlier times.

The most fundamental and welcome development in the Bill is in section 31. It provides for the establishment of joint policing committees with Garda and local authority representation. I referred to this already. This measure will probably be the one that will win the confidence of the public.

Many Members have referred to Garda visibility. I do not want to quote extensively from the findings of the Lord Mayor's commission on crime but some of the quotations from the submissions of the focus groups that met the commission are constructive. Many communities reported that they are under-policed. They identified an apparent lack of interest on the part of local gardaí in what is considered to be minor crime. Some stated there was no visible police patrol in their area. The lack of a consistent visible police presence in the community is a continual complaint. The focus groups also contended that the need for Garda foot patrols is a must. People want to see a visible Garda presence on the streets, both day and night, and believe a squad car driving around occasionally does not solve or prevent the problems.

There is no doubt that the issue of Garda visibility is critical. I am not pretending that seeing one or two gardaí will transform people's perception of the need for a proactive police force, but I believe it makes a considerable difference. The very fact that gardaí can be seen is important. Many have adverted to the fact that it results in fewer groups congregating around shopping centres, for example. It can influence the problem of young and not-so-young people drinking in public, both day and night. There seems to be an epidemic involving people racing around our parks and streets on micro-motorcycles and scrambler bikes. When people ring up a Garda station about this, they are told the gardaí can do nothing because a squad car is not available. This undermines people's confidence in the Garda.

There is no doubt that there are examples of good practice by gardaí. Deputy O'Dowd reminded me of the use of bicycles by gardaí. This initiative began in Tallaght and Clontarf and has now been adopted elsewhere, including in my constituency.

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