Máire Hoctor (Tipperary North, Fianna Fail)

Tá mé an-bhuíoch as ucht an seans labhairt ar an mBille tábhachtach seo. I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Bill.

I pay tribute to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, for his openness on this Bill. He has welcomed many contributions on this debate from people in the Seanad and from a number of statutory organisations. The debate has been very enlightening so far and we can all contribute to the most radical legislation that has come before the House in years. I also commend his Ministers of State, Deputies Brian Lenihan and Fahey, as well the staff in the Department. I have no doubt the Minister will remain open-minded when recommendations and amendments come before him in later stages of this Bill.

I commend Commissioner Conroy and his staff on the work they do on our behalf. We must recognise the work that nobody sees but which is undertaken by the Garda Síochána. This includes the gathering of intelligence and quiet but effective work against the illegal drugs trade and other gangland crime. Not all such work is reported because of its very nature but I commend the Garda Síochána for its endeavours. We can see how efficient the Garda Síochána is in a crisis. In recent months, murders in Cork and elsewhere were acted upon effectively by members of the force. I commend the manner in which they worked, by bringing local communities with them in the search for missing persons, although I do not wish to comment on individual cases.

While we have a very efficient Garda force, the Bill aims to promote effective relations between the Garda Síochána, the Government, the Minister, local authorities and the community at large. I acknowledge that there is already a good working relationship in this regard. One only has to attend meetings of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights to witness the open relationship that exists between the Department and the Garda Síochána. That relationship is to be commended. Nevertheless, gaps have been recognised and the Bill will go a long way towards addressing them.

The Garda Síochána must work to maintain public confidence. Members of the public may be slow to express their confidence in the force but it is important to highlight the respect the public has in this regard. That will happen as a result of the joint policing committees that will eventually be established under the terms of the Bill.

I welcome the changes that have already come about due to the openness of the Minister's attitude, the debate in the Seanad and the redefining of the roles of the Minister and the Government. Transparency is required concerning the relationship between the Minister and the Garda Síochána. When the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights dealt with the Barron report, former Ministers for Justice were asked about their exact roles vis-À-vis the Garda Síochána. In the investigations following the bombings in Dublin, Monaghan and other places, communications between the Minister of the day and the Garda Síochána appear to have been somewhat deficient. The Garda Síochána was investigating these atrocities but it was apparent to the committee that the ministerial and Garda roles were not clearly defined. The Minister of the day seemed to be far removed from the workings of the Garda Síochána.

Following those bombings, the Garda investigations were often wound down quickly but there was no clear explanation for why this happened. The Minister was not particularly involved and no doubt there were other pressures on him to get on with managing the affairs of State, although the North of Ireland conflict was a particularly sensitive issue.

The Bill will clearly establish the working relationship between the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Garda Síochána. They will work closely together, but as independent entities, for the betterment of policing generally.

We have a unique situation in so far as the Garda Síochána is the sole police force here, unlike other European countries. The Bill goes quite a way towards addressing the particular needs of that security force. The proposed significant involvement of members of local authorities and the public is to be welcomed. They will be called upon to act, as they currently do in an unofficial capacity. Their role will be given a clearer statutory basis once the Bill is enacted.

Many local authorities are already working in this way with the co-operation of the Garda Síochána. I speak as a former member of Nenagh Town Council where local authority members meet with local gardaí under the direction of Superintendent Jim Fitzgerald. To the best of their abilities, they address the various crime problems in the area. This open working relationship has proved to be quite effective, albeit in a limited way.

The proposed introduction of joint policing committees is currently a matter of wide-ranging debate at the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights. I welcome the fact that Members of the Oireachtas will play their part despite yesterday's contribution by the General Council of County Councils, which was emphatic that it did not want Deputies or Senators on the joint policing committees. We also have a role to play, however. Confining meetings of such committees to Mondays and Fridays should not be a deterrent to keeping Oireachtas Members on joint policing committees.

I welcome the Minister's willingness to take on board the need for representation from town councils. We must recognise that crime is more apparent in urban settings, so it would be a serious omission if town councils were not represented on joint policing committees. I see them playing a leading role on such committees in future.

Deputy Costello, myself and other members of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights have listened intently to representations on this issue from the various local authority members' organisations, such as LAMA, the General Council of County Councils and the AMAI. Emphasis has been placed on restricting membership of the joint policing committees to elected representatives, both at national and local level, and members of the Garda Síochána. There is merit in this argument because, after all, various community interests are already represented by those who have gone before the people and have been elected. No doubt there will be conflicts of opinion in that regard but I believe that formula is possibly the best one that has come before us. The involvement of those fora will integrate the various voluntary organisations and representative groups that have an interest in local area policing.

Great work can be achieved by the Garda Síochána and local authorities in preparing town and county development plans. The Garda Síochána will have a direct advisory role in issues such as public lighting, estate management and estate layout, thus helping to create a safer environment, particularly for vulnerable people, including the elderly and others living alone. I welcome the Minister's move in this regard, which will mean that much useful work can be done. Ironically, the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform has accorded great recognition to the integrity of local public representatives who are elected by the people.

The introduction of volunteer members of the Garda Síochána is an interesting concept which arises in the Bill. The Minister is actively considering UK models where a reserve police force works in a training capacity with the established constabulary. I look forward to learning more about this idea in the near future.

It is essential that adequate training be provided for those working on the new joint policing committees and related fora. The issues of confidentiality and adequate training were queried yesterday at the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights. Examples were cited from Northern Ireland, where training models are already in place. We may look to them for such training but it is essential that people should be clear about their roles on policing committees and the voluntary fora that will provide the necessary information to allow the Garda Síochána and local authorities to work together.

I welcome that the Garda ombudsman commission is included in the Bill. The existing Garda Complaints Board, due to its limited capacity, needs to be revised and reformed and I am glad the opportunity for this arises in the Bill. The issue of complaints about members of the Garda Síochána must be made clearer. Members of the public may have a complaint to make against a garda but would not know how to do so. I particularly welcome the significant development in the Bill that the new body will not always require the catalyst of a public complaint before it can investigate a case. However, we must acknowledge the powers of individual members of the Garda Síochána, the people in uniform. To be fair, anyone who holds a position of power is in a position to abuse it. We must recognise this and enable and encourage gardaí to maintain a high level of integrity and ensure their behaviour is ethical at all times.

It is beyond doubt that past and more recent actions by some gardaí would call their integrity into question. For example, I am aware of situations in which gardaí working in different communities inherited significant property on the death of residents. Such gardaí may with the best of intentions have acted to protect vulnerable or elderly people living on their own and been willed the property following their deaths to the devastation of some families. While it is difficult to know how such matters can be investigated, I hope the ombudsman commission will conduct investigations. Bequests may be due to the kindness and genuine efforts of the gardaí involved but it is undoubted they can call into question their integrity and credibility as effective, ethical members of the police force. At present, such matters would be difficult to investigate but the appointment of the ombudsman commission will go far towards addressing the issue.

The ombudsman commission will be appointed to serve the people and the Garda Síochána for greater effectiveness and the betterment of the wider community. However, what happens if a member of the Garda Síochána has a complaint about another member of the force? For example, a member of more senior rank may subject a garda to bullying or other unacceptable behaviour. There is no provision in regard to the ombudsman commission for Garda members who wish to make a complaint about other gardaí who act in an irresponsible or unacceptable way. Gardaí may feel isolated or inadequately equipped to make a complaint. The Minister should seriously consider this as an issue that might opportunely be addressed in the context of the Bill.

I welcome the anti-social behaviour order recently indicated by the Minister, Deputy McDowell, which I hope he will implement. The behaviour of the young is a gap that has not been addressed and elderly people living on housing estates, for example, can feel vulnerable due to egg-throwing and other kinds of anti-social behaviour while gardaí feel helpless. The issue will be addressed by the new order of the Minister. While the Irish Council for Civil Liberties expressed deep concern about the measure, legislation must be put in place so that young people experience fear. Many of the young have no idea of fear and dread nothing. They must experience some fear as a deterrent so others can live with the regular quality of life they were accustomed to but which diminished because of out of control and anti-social behaviour.

I welcome the recent development by the Department, working with the Garda Síochána, to attempt to upgrade Garda vehicles, a long-standing request of the Garda Representative Association. Great strides have been made in this regard. The Minister has heard me speak of this matter on a number of occasions.

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