Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)

There are no two ways about it, it is a simple fact. Either they had information from the Garda or they did not. Certain people can conclusively determine the outcome of this tribunal with a factual and definitive response.

Regarding costs, we are all frustrated at how tribunals appear to go on forever and how lawyers are endlessly enriched as legal representatives in tribunals. Judge Cory stated that this tribunal should not be a source of enrichment for senior counsel. We would like the Minister to indicate the measures he will take to ensure this does not happen.

Deputy Jim O'Keeffe made an excellent suggestion regarding the tendering out of the process. Why can it not be done in such a way? Legal representation should be asked to tender their services for this work. To do that it would be necessary to have a clear idea of the aim of the tribunal, its duration and the intensiveness of the representation.

It is necessary to be clear about who is entitled to legal representation. We have the incredible situation in the Morris tribunal where the central figures have no entitlement to legal representation although many other entities are represented. As I understand it, the Minister's legal representative is still on a retainer although he does not attend the tribunal. We cannot allow that to continue. There must be clear guidelines as to how the legal representation is provided and what will be the cost.

We should not continue with per diem costings, we should get a costing for the job. Per diem costings are a recipe for a tribunal to go on ad infinitum, beat around the bushes and ultimately come up with very little. The Minister had promised to amend the Tribunals of Inquiry (Evidence) (Amendment) Acts to provide for the regulation of costs and other matters. Why has that not come before the House so that we can determine the appropriate method of setting costs for future tribunals? I accept that a deadline will be fixed for existing tribunals and that there has been some adjustment in regard to costs, but what will happen with tribunals in future? That legislation should come before the House without delay. It should have been introduced so that we could debate the issue and make decisions in regard to it.

I hope we will have regular referrals back to the House. The motion states that a referral will be made to the House on an interim basis not later than three months from the date of establishment of the tribunal and as soon as may be after the tenth day of any oral hearings of the tribunal. I repeat Deputy Jim O'Keeffe's inquiry as to what is meant by "as soon as may be after the tenth day of any oral hearings". We need to be made aware of what is happening on a regular basis. I do not believe we have ever had a report from the Moriarty tribunal. There needs to be an in-built requirement for a report. However, just because regular reports would issue should not mean that a tribunal would go on for ever. We should definitively tie down where we intend to go from the start.

I compliment the Minister on setting up this tribunal, which should have been set up earlier. There has been a serious miscarriage of justice in regard to the Dean Lyons case. The Minister should announce the setting up of a tribunal into that matter. That case raises a major question mark over the behaviour of the Garda in terms of investigations.

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