Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)

The first principle of the Labour Party's approach to child care is to offer families, irrespective of whether they involve one or two parents, choices regarding how they wish to bring up their children. The current child care model focuses excessively on the needs of employers who want to have both parents in the workforce. While this is justifiable economically, we as legislators also need to consider the needs of parents and their children and the generational effect.

I spoke yesterday about the different kinds of crèches. Given the concentration of tax breaks on building facilities and the concentration of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform's equal opportunities child care programme 2000-2006 on built facilities in the private sector and, to a lesser extent, the community sector, we are, for the reasons I outlined yesterday, losing sight of what this matter is about. It is about how our children are brought up. I hope this is with the love, care and attention of their families. Babies are left in crèches when their parents, if they live in the commuter belt around Dublin, leave home before 7 a.m. A child care place for a baby for a week in most crèches is more than €200 because it is expensive to care for a small baby. The parents may not return home until 6.30 p.m. or 7 p.m. The Minister's children are probably young enough for him to know that many crèches charge a penalty if the parent arrives late. A crèche is a professional business operation which is very tough on young parents.

Ireland is said to be the second richest country in Europe but most other European countries allow one or both parents to be at home on maternity, paternity or a combination of leave for most of the first year of a baby's life. In this way the baby experiences a loving family environment.

The equal opportunities child care programme run by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform has failed. Ireland has a long and good tradition of some child care being available through the extended family and neighbourhood. A grandmother, sister, cousin or woman down the road might take on the job. Some women who have reared their children or whose children are in school all day decide to mind a baby or two children.

The programme does not provide for that traditional type of service which many parents love because the children are nearby or with a relative. They are not fined if they are five minutes late to collect the child. In addition, the child sees the minder at holiday times and the minder may even occasionally take the baby overnight. When we move to a social worker-determined model, we should not throw out our traditional family values. I hope the Minister will have influence over the debate.

The county child care committees are very expensive to operate. They correctly focus on levels of training but love and care are more important for a baby. It does not matter if one has a degree in babyminding and so on. The quality of the love, care and attention given to the baby is essential. Registration, training and the quality of the premises are important too. We have, however, closed down the informal sector.

The Minister's predecessor introduced a tax break for letting a room to the value of €6,000. I have often wondered whether this was a good or bad initiative. There are many black economy childminders, some good, some not. Surely it is not beyond our imagination to devise a scheme to bring some of these good, traditional family-based childminders into the system. It may be difficult because there are many other attractive employment options available. We should not choose a model for large-scale private sector provision in a small community.

In many ways the Child Care Act 1991 opted for a Rolls Royce legislative model when there were not enough resources or people for that model. It was right in theory but has not worked out well in practice. Some of the people working in the former health boards were more interested in covering their backs. The situation resembles that of a lady selling apple tarts who is hounded by the environmental protection officer when in most other European countries people would be waving a flag to advertise her baking and she would be selling to the local hotel and so on.

There is another side to that and one does not want the guests in the hotel to suffer class one food poisoning. There ought, however, to be a balanced model of regulation which recognises some of our positive traditions in this respect. Deputy Paul McGrath said there is more than one model of child care. In Ireland, traditionally, there are four models, all of which should be considered.

What is being done for parents who have teenage children, particularly boys? After school, services exist but often teenagers at different stages in their lives need access to the presence of their parents. They do not want their parents to talk to them but they need their parents while they go through the experience of growing up. Within the Civil Service there has been a positive development on job-sharing and on the facility to take leave.

A woman may start to work at approximately the age of 23 or 25, having graduated and qualified and maybe taken a master's degree. If she is to work until she is 65, why not acknowledge that for five to seven years of that period she and her partner may have important home and family commitments? It is wonderful that many fathers are interested in spending time with their children and sharing the fun and the exasperation of child care.

I hope the Minister can bring some imagination to this debate and that it is not simply driven by the needs of employers who want women workers. While that is a justifiable economic demand, it should not be the exclusive determinant of what we do about child care provision. The Minister yesterday mentioned child benefit. When I was Minister of State in the then Department of Social Welfare and Deputy Woods was the senior Minister, I brought forward the idea that the child benefit payment was the way to avoid a poverty trap. Everybody, including the present Minister for Finance, followed this.

A report on that subject, chaired by Peter Malone, a prominent employer in the hotel trade at the time, was designed to overcome the poverty traps which then existed if people on a social welfare income took up work. Other countries offer refundable child credits. Deputy Paul McGrath mentioned countries with voucher systems. Something similar should be possible here and that is one of the reasons to examine the technical capacity of the Revenue Commissioners' information technology system.

The take-up and targeting of the family income supplement is a mess. Public sector employers are the most likely to avail of this because they are prepared to deal with the paperwork. Several models exist and perhaps the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service should consider these to decide what works and what fits with our cultural traditions regarding children.

I have followed with close attention the history of institutional care and the very sad situation that existed for many people. Now, on the basis of tax breaks, we are creating large-scale crèches, particularly for young babies. What will be the effect of those in 25 years' time? Would it not be better if we balanced that tax break with a greater possibility for either or both parents to be with their baby for longer and to use that time for caring? Children are babies for just a short period. Time passes and then they are teenagers who will not even speak to their parents.

Instead of being led by the nose by social policy experts, some of us in this House should have confidence in what we believe is good or bad and we should leave the choice to individual parents and families. The Minister said he will examine the issue, in which I wish him well. There will be tremendous support from parties across the House if he is able to open up the situation.

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