Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

I was answering a question asking if the initiative has made major improvements in the modernisation of the public service, staff flexibility and output of Departments. That is not to take away from the fact that some Departments work under enormous pressures on day-to-day issues. In fairness, one of the issues Deputy Rabbitte mentioned, the Travers report, which I read in detail last night, shows the pressures under which senior members work on day-to-day issues. It shows in one way that many of the surveys and reports carried out on the health reform package of recent years are correct that it is not best practice for the Department to deal with the day-to-day issues as well as the policy issues. It is a good advertisement for the Health Service Executive where one group deals with policy issues and not day-to-day crises because otherwise people focus on one thing they should do and they go off and actions are not followed up. It is a human issue.

It is fair enough for the Deputy to say these things should not happen. Someone can look at the issues, as we see in the Travers report, and identify the procedures that should be followed. If it were all done perfectly, that would happen but it is not so exact that everything is written down and followed. The Deputy is right; it is costly in these issues.

The indemnity scheme is a different issue. Deputy Rabbitte has answered the question himself. The Government decided that a redress scheme would be established following the apology I gave on behalf of the Government six years ago. The view was that it was preferable for congregations to make a meaningful contribution instead of no contribution and instead of the State being required to sue the congregations later. If all the 5,000 cases had gone to court, the legal fees would have been enormous and it would have been traumatic for the victims. Many of the congregations had their properties tied up in trusts and it would not have been possible to receive the money. Congregations are not like companies, as we found in those discussions, and the questions of illegal acts by members had been fully tested. It was not a simple question of being able to take their assets from them. The Government had decided to establish a redress scheme on way or another. I have not seen the report yet but I will look at it when it is issued.

The strategic management initiative is giving taxpayers better value for money and facilities in public services. The PA report stated that the modernisation programme should deliver better services for the resources provided. Now staff are more flexible and there are longer opening hours in Departments. There is new technology that allows people to use the Internet for tax returns. Resources are better targeted, the expenditure review initiative is in place, management performance is monitored, staff are recruited and managed more effectively and there is greater use of competitive promotion. Organisations are structured more effectively, with separate agencies such as the Courts Service being established. All this has taken place under SMI, not to speak of customer reports, strategy statements and annual reports of scrutiny by the Comptroller and Auditor General. They have substantially improved the public service in spite of the pressures on some Departments. There are issues surrounding that and issues in the report today of which account will have to be taken.

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