Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)

That is not the case, but that is a debate for another day. When it comes to the elderly we should have debates like this regularly. We should not try with sleight of hand to put right what we did wrong in the past. That must not happen. We must take responsibility for the elderly. The two greatest needs in society now are child care and services for the elderly.

The issue of institutional abuse arose on "Liveline" with Joe Duffy today. The next major inquiry into the way the State treated people or ignored their needs will be about the care of the elderly. We will be sitting at home or in a home one day and remembering when this issue first arose and that we should have taken much more interest in it at the time. The next major scandal that will break will be the way we have treated the elderly, and we had better start doing something about it while we have the money. The rest of the world has done it and I do not understand why we cannot do the same.

On the medical card element of the Bill, and I am glad Deputy Cooper-Flynn raised the issue, these cards will be more than welcome to families who have lost their medical cards because they went over the income limit. I am talking about people with young children or those who have a teenager suffering from asthma, which is not a long-term illness and does not carry the same entitlement to a medical card.

Like Deputy Cooper-Flynn, I have a sneaking suspicion that we are not adding to the medical card scheme but dismantling it. We are seeing the first step towards the replacement of the medical card which provides access to doctors' services and medication. More of these cards will probably be issued next year and at the same time we will see a decrease in the number of full medical cards issued. Only a Progressive Democrats Minister could introduce a scheme such as this. While I feel sorry for the Tánaiste in terms of what the former Minister, Deputy Martin, left behind him in the Department of Health and Children, I will have no sympathy for her if that is her intention, which I believe it is.

This measure is much more sinister. We are beginning to see a dismantling of the medical card scheme that has served this country well. As Deputy Sherlock rightly said, the percentages have dropped dramatically. Fewer medical cards are issued in every county than was the case in 1997. That is happening; it is not a gimmick. It is a planned initiative to dismantle the medical card scheme and no better Minister to do that than a Progressive Democrats Minister.

This short but significant Bill is no more than the first step in a debate which must take place on the manner in which we care for the elderly. There is one element of it which really annoys me — the notion that elderly men and women would be left with €30 in their pockets each week as if they were children. One's needs do not diminish as one gets older. If anything, they increase. As a woman I know that women only realised in recent years that the dignity that comes with financial independence cannot be replaced. Even if people are well cared for, they still want to be able to put their hands in their pockets and pay for their little comforts. For someone to be left with €30 at the end of their years is a scandal. In replying, perhaps the Minister would indicate whether this measure represents a dismantling of the medical card scheme and explain what happened at that meeting. When will we hear about that?

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