Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta Perry as ucht a chuid ama a roinnt liom. Ba mhaith liom tagairt a dhéanamh don méid a dúirt an tAire Stáit, an Teachta Noel Ahern, nuair a bhí sé ag oscailt na díospóireachta seo.

The intent of this Bill cannot be argued with given the objectives outlined by the Minister. He spoke about the importance of using the unclaimed money in financial institutions to tackle disadvantage and exclusion in society and to assist the less well-off. That is a very laudable aim. The Minister also stated that the value of the fund is approximately €200 million and that some would be kept in prudent reserve in case of claims for repayment.

However, it is clear that the Government has succumbed to temptation. There is talk about the principle of ensuring that decisions on the fund are informed by what is in the public interest and that they are accessible to public application and fully subject to public scrutiny. Then, unfortunately, the mask slips. There is talk about channelling the funds through the Votes of relevant Departments. The fact that the fund comes from dormant accounts is lost in the presentation of it as coming from the largesse of the Government. This happened regarding the national lottery, which is often presented as Government largesse rather than funding that has come from a public specifically motivated not merely to win a prize but also to help community projects. The Minister is to be responsible for the appointment of board members. There is a political dimension to that. The programmes are to be subject to Government approval on a list of programmes recommended for funding.

The intent of the Bill is laudable but its delivery is clouded in political judgment. I imagine the public relations department of each Department will be fully employed in getting the most political benefit from how that money is spent. To that extent this legislation puts the cart before the horse. How money is dispensed on what could be called a charitable basis is something which has exercised the minds of people in this House and many outside it for many decades. I will not go into the creation of tribunals which are not directly linked to this Bill, but they may indicate a certain mindset which has caused problems in the past and may still cause problems.

The 1990 Costello report was supposedly the light at the end of the tunnel. Regulation of charitable giving and charitable organisations was to be put on a proper footing. The committee on fund-raising activities received many submissions and met many people, including former Senator, Des Hanafin, the father of the Minister for Education and Science, who at the time was heading Taca, an organisation that benefited Fianna Fáil. The origins, the modus operandi, the checks and balances in regard to all charities need to be examined and put on a proper footing. Whether Taca could be called a charity is debatable. It shows the level of uncertainty that surrounds the charity sector. In 1996 the Burton report pointed towards the need for legislation that would regulate charities and charitable giving. Now we are debating the dormant accounts fund, another €200 million to be given to various charities and other good causes, yet we still do not have the legislation that was demanded as far back as 1990 and which is promised in this House every year but which, it seems, is always to be delivered at some time in the future.

I hope we can return to dealing with core issue, the proper regulation of charities and charitable giving, so that it will not be tainted by a cynical political use of that money. I hope Fianna Fáil will deliver on that long held out promise to regulate the charities sector. I bet that during Fianna Fáil's time in Government, we will never see a proper reform of the law on charities. I hope to lose the bet. However, it is a reasonably safe bet at the moment given the length of time reform of laws on charities has been promised. I am not too sure the issue is discussed often at the Galway Races at Ballybrit. I am not even sure whether St. Luke's, the Taoiseach's base, would be regarded as a community-based charity. It would be interesting to see what its designation is. We know it is funded by philanthropic and quite discrete elements in the business community. All these need to be clearly designated and it needs to be clear what regulations cover that type of charitable giving.

It would be interesting to have the minutes of Taca meetings given to the National Archives.

See this speech in context