Dáil debates

Thursday, 10 February 2005

Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad]: Second Stage.

 

1:00 pm

Photo of Seymour CrawfordSeymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important Bill and, in general, I welcome the Bill. The issues that concern me most are those things which were promised in the past but have not happened, for example, an extra 2,000 gardaí on the beat. The Garda service in the Border area, especially following recent threats from the IRA, worries me. Several barracks are closed for all but a few hours a day and the distance between those that are open is unacceptable in the new situation we may face. We cannot ignore these issues.

A previous speaker said that almost 400 gardaí are involved in ordinary desk duty. They could be out on the beat. If the Government is serious about having people out and visible, that is not justified. A great deal of Garda time is spent in court. My colleague, Deputy Jim O'Keeffe, who is a solicitor, and the Minister might not agree because the legal profession likes people to spend as much time in court as possible, for various reasons. For gardaí to spend time in court is not in people's best interests. They may be on call for court attendance on one day but if the case is not dealt with and is put back to another day they will be on call again. They could be released from this duty to do what they should do.

It is crazy to employ Garda personnel in the collection of fines. To get around that problem, my party proposed a Bill that could have dealt with fines by way of attachment to earnings or social welfare. While the Minister stated he had other ideas, the Bill does not deal with this. It is a means of freeing up more personnel to do the work we want them to do.

The Minister will appreciate that I and my party, more than any other in the House apart from the Minister's, support the Garda Síochána and want it to work in the best interests of the public. I do not like Members to state in the House that, as public representatives, they could not advise supporters to provide information to gardaí. That is not my attitude, which is that we work with and deal with the Garda as the force of law and order.

Community policing is often overlooked but provides a tremendous service. As an example, one need only look at my town of Monaghan, where a community garda dealt with an ongoing problem in a housing estate. He did a tremendous job and worked at all hours, far beyond the call of duty, to supply, with the aid of outside organisations, a community building to allow for sport and other recreational activities. This will lead to better education, better facilities for young mothers and better control. This is the type of positive activity we want.

I welcome increased Garda involvement with local authorities. The more gardaí who can become involved with local people, the better. While I question the need to get permission from the Minister to hold meetings and so on, this is possibly only legal jargon in the Bill. However, any such involvement must be as near the ground as possible to ensure that communities feel involved and trust is built up with the Garda. Gone are the days when a local garda travelled by bicycle or on foot, knew every person and could keep tabs on people.

Many years ago, two eminent clerics contacted senior Garda personnel to have a sergeant removed from a town because they felt he was not hard enough in closing pubs at night. However, it was less than a year before the clerics were begging for the same officer to be moved back to the town because he was in touch with everything and knew exactly what was happening. He did not try to impose the law in a negative way, although he could have done better in the view of some. However, he was on the beat and knew what was happening. When the local bank was robbed, he was able to arrest the perpetrators within hours because he had been watching events unfold.

While I welcome this aspect of the Bill, it is not certain who pays for this involvement by local authorities. As one who spent almost 30 years on a local authority, I know that over the years it was given an increasing number of roles to play but less and less funds with which to play them. It must be made clear that local authorities are not being asked to take on additional responsibilities or personnel and that they will be funded as necessary.

While I am not sure it is covered in the Bill, I wish to refer to the issue of traffic wardens. As all politics is local, I will use the example of my town, Monaghan, which has had a welcome increase in the number of traffic wardens from one to three, as well as the introduction of pay parking. Despite some initial complications, the traffic wardens are doing a good job. However, a technicality arises in that while a traffic warden can deal with parked cars, he or she cannot play any role in directing traffic but must call the Garda. If traffic wardens are able to control car parking, they should have a role in traffic management. Although Monaghan is awaiting a bypass, it has not yet been built and one or two vehicles in the centre of town can cause chaos. Traffic wardens are usually available and should have a role to play in this regard.

I welcome the proposed increase in liaison with the policing authorities in Northern Ireland and elsewhere. As a representative of a Border area, whatever build-up of trust can be achieved with the police forces North and South is extremely important. There have been good relationships in the past but questions arise at times as to how well the system works on the ground. It is no harm for the personnel to be interchanged and for this new format to be used to build better relationships.

I referred in another recent debate to the events at Omagh and the fact that at that stage nobody had been arrested. Little did I know that somebody from this State was arrested 24 hours earlier and held awaiting trial for related offences. I hope this is just the beginning of a resolution to this investigation.

With regard to the Garda volunteer force, I am conscious that the 2,000 full-time gardaí have not been delivered. It is intended that the 1,400 members of the new volunteer force would have the same powers as full-time gardaí. How will this work? Will they have full Garda training? Will they be paid? To whom are they answerable? Under what structures will they work? What role will they play? The Minister referred to this but his contribution does not make us much the wiser. It is a matter that will need to clarified on Committee Stage for us to be able to support the measure fully.

There is a need, to which I referred earlier in regard to county council structures, for every format to be used to make more personnel available to enforce the law. This will provide peace of mind to the public in their homes, in particular at night, so that drunks, not all of them young, outside chip shops and pubs can be watched. Towns such as Cootehill, County Cavan, and Ballybay, County Monaghan, are a long way from a Garda headquarters which is open at night, and much can happen in a few minutes or hours if gardaí are not available. However, I question the granting of additional powers in this regard. If one individual takes on too much power, serious problems can arise. We will have to reconsider this matter on Committee Stage.

I welcome that the annual report will now be published within four months. I hope this great improvement is realised because in the past the report has not been published for at least a year. When one considers how quickly we can obtain figures from banks and so on, one must ask why has a vital structure like the Garda Síochána not got a computer system that would provide instant information, not just on reports but in other areas.

The decision to dissolve the Garda Complaints Board is vital. I welcome the ombudsman commission proposal. It has been the focus of consistent queries, and I will bring one such query to the Minister's attention in a few minutes. It appears that the ombudsman commission will comprise three people to be appointed by the Dáil. Why has the Minister decided on three people rather than one person, as is the case in Northern Ireland?

I welcome any improvement in this area, but it is not acceptable that, under section 66, the ombudsman will employ gardaí. Is it acceptable that gardaí should be involved in investigating complaints against their colleagues? For instance should advice be sought, from Canada, France, the UK or wherever? I recall the abuse my former Dáil colleague, and now MEP, Jim Higgins, got from the media and so on when he tried to highlight what was happening in Donegal. The gardaí were supposed to be above reproach. I want to put on record once again my commitment and that of my party to the Garda Síochána. However, we must recognise that there are bad eggs everywhere, and a completely independent body must deal with these people.

I raise a case with which I am familiar. I am sure the couple concerned visited the Minister's offices. They met with me in regard to their treatment by the Garda, particularly the Garda Complaints Board. I have a letter dated 12 May 2003, addressed to the Chief Executive of the Garda Complaints Board, Irish Life Centre, Lower Abbey Street, Dublin 1. Before coming to this House, I checked if the case had been dealt with. I was told that there has been no word to date, which is totally unacceptable. There may be questions as to what a case is all about because people may have over-reacted and so on, but surely a body such as this should have the courtesy to get back to people and hear their complaint. I have many queries relating to this issue. I have gone through the boxes of files with a fine tooth comb. My interest in the case is that the wife comes from my constituency, and I know the family extremely well. Cases such as this must be examined and dealt with. They may involve a bit of bother or hassle, but these people have certainly been harassed. I am very concerned that they have not been given the full benefit of the law. I do not normally complain about the gardaí, but when one examines this file, as I am sure the Minister has, it raises major questions about how the existing Garda Complaints Board and a number of very senior personnel within the Garda deal with individuals. These people are not criminals. They are not the type of people one would want to see living the hell they have lived. The man involved has lost a good position in public life. He lost his career because of what has gone on.

Another issue about which I am concerned happened along the Border. A young man was left for dead after being beaten with shovels and spades. The windows in his house were broken and his car and tractor were damaged, yet no one has been held responsible. There is ongoing racketeering in that area. This is not happening on a cross-religious basis, it is happening within one group of people. Questions must be asked, as this is extremely serious. I have met senior Garda personnel in the matter but I am not satisfied with the response. Summonses arrive late and many other things happen, which should not happen. I would like to see this matter cleared up, therefore, the setting up of the ombudsman commission is very important.

There appears to be some concern about searching Garda stations without authorisation. I would question why. I highlighted at the agriculture committee yesterday that inspectors from the Department of Agriculture and Food can walk into a farm without notice and carry out a full inspection. Farmers may not end up going to court, but they could lose thousands of euro if everything is not perfect on the day. However, there is a different attitude to the Garda who have a serious responsibility to the State. If the ombudsman commission is to work, Garda stations should be as open to inspection as anywhere else.

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