Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

After three days in Leeds Castle, we stated we believed we could resolve the issues related to ending paramilitary activity and putting weapons beyond use. We did not get as far on the institutional matters, mainly due to time factors. There were also differences in substance and content but insufficient time was put into the discussions. We said we believed that, subject to a satisfactory outcome to the consultations, we could resolve the issue of arms and the politics of Northern Ireland and allow the two Governments to implement the remaining elements of the Joint Declaration agreed last year. That is the stage to which we brought the discussions.

As regards strands one, two and three, we said we believed we could get agreement but could not do so by changing the fundamentals. We made clear, from the Irish Government's point of view, how far we could go in this regard which, perhaps depending on how one argues, is not very far but at least we tried. A review was built into the Agreement in 1998 after the multi-party talks so obviously the intention was to have a review. Therefore, we must try at least to make some movement, particularly in areas where it is desirable to make moves.

On the Deputy's question regarding a date, since June we have been working on the basis that if we came to the anniversary of the election, which is on 26 November, and had not made sufficient progress, we would have to look at where we go from there. That has been the view since the meetings we had at Lancaster House in late June. More recently, if a change in legislation were required — most people believe legislative change would be needed — it would have to be included in the Queen's speech to the House of Commons on 23 November. That has been the timeframe to which we have been working.

On the Deputy's third question, the prospects have slowed since Leeds Castle. That is my view which is not one shared by everybody, but I will always give it as I see it on these questions. There are a number of reasons for this, some of which are related to negotiating positions and some to tactics. It is perhaps also because some people have not been involved previously in the process, particularly the DUP, which has not been engaged in this kind of discussion. Perhaps its systems are not yet geared up to the kind of arrangements one needs to make for these discussions, which is understandable since the party has tended, regrettably, either not to have been involved or only peripherally involved for the past six or seven years. It would have been better if it had been engaged. A further reason is that the DUP is holding to the position that it will not talk to Sinn Féin. Since the essential element of what we are trying to do is to reach a conclusion to these issues so that the DUP and Sinn Féin would become the central drivers in a new Executive with the other parties, that they are not talking to each other in any direct form makes the process slow and cumbersome. That is the way it is and one must follow what people set down as their negotiating positions.

I wish to place on record the other matter which probably worries me more. I hope it is not the intention of any party to play this long in tactical terms or play it out to the other side of the British election or, with certainty, the Northern Ireland local elections which are due next May. I cannot be certain that is the case but neither can I tell Deputy Rabbitte that I am certain it is not the case. I remain to be convinced. That would be worrying because then we would go past this date and a few more dates. If the British election is held in the summer, as is expected by many and has not been denied, the British then proceed to holding the EU Presidency and the G8 presidency. We can see where we will be on the agenda in that case and would certainly be drifting into 2006.

This is 2 November so we have 20 days. Otherwise it will drift along. I have taken the opportunity to talk and consult with all the parties on this and anybody I have not met has been met by the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern. I will talk to David Trimble tomorrow and I have talked to everybody else. I talked to the president of Sinn Féin last week and to the other parties recently — the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, has been doing the same — to emphasise that we must come to a resolution on this.

Deputy Rabbitte's last question was on our own proposals. This is where I did not want to go but we might get there. If we go past 25 November, the two Governments will have to consider the best way of progressing. Naturally, we have given some thought to that but not a lot because we did not want to go onto that ground. We will have to see the best way of advancing. That will be a key part of our discussions on Friday, when we hope to have a lengthy meeting in Brussels, if we cannot make progress in moving on. We will make one final effort. Some of the leaders of the parties will not be available during the next week but immediately on their return we will put our final position to the key parties and see if they will agree to move on. At that stage it will be clear what they want to do.

Nothing has changed. There are no new items. There is not much deviation from the old items either. It is well rehearsed ground at this stage. I never get to the stage where one gives up but the issues have been endlessly discussed to the point of frustration and I do not lead the list of the frustrated. We have talked inside out and upside down the issues of putting arms beyond use, demilitarisation, re-establishment of the institutions and the devolution of policing. There are not many issues, frankly, and all of them have been well and truly analysed. Everybody knows everybody's position. Even though they are not talking to each other, we have tried to act as a go-between.

That is my assessment of the current position.

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