Damien English (Meath, Fine Gael)

First, I will comment on Deputy Tim O'Malley's contribution. The Government is missing the point. Everybody agrees we should ensure there is no room for abuse of our citizenship laws. However, this is a bigger issue and is not as simple as the Minister of State suggests. Whereas the referendum on the one line amendment is a simple "yes" or "no" answer, the topic of immigration, citizenship and non-nationals is a massive issue. As I have repeatedly said in the House, we do not have a policy on this. We do not have clarity or sufficient information and that is fuelling racism. It is not that anybody wishes to fuel racism but that is what is happening as a result of the lack of information, clarity and a comprehensive policy. This is the third or fourth time I have spoken on legislation relating to immigration, non-nationals and so forth but we have never had a full debate on the subject. That is what we are seeking. Let us have a proper discussion about it and formulate a policy.

The Minister said the Opposition parties cannot come forward with a set of alternatives. That is correct. Our party has not sat down to discuss this, no more than the Minister's has. There is disagreement in his party too. Nobody has discussed this fully. It is not a simple issue and it is a pity that we have to plough ahead with this referendum without having a full debate and putting all the information on the table. We are not even sure how big the problem is. We have repeatedly asked for figures on the number of children involved. How many babies have been born in the last number of years? How many parents have abused this loophole or are expected to abuse it in the future? We do not know.

The Minister spoke this morning about babies being born to non-nationals in our hospitals. He never clarified, however, how many of them arrived in this country in the few days before the babies were born. A chap from America has been living near me for the past ten years. He is a non-national. If his wife has a baby, it is classified as a non-national. The baby could be included in the Minister's figures but that is not what we are discussing and it is not the reason for the referendum. Figures are being thrown about to prove the case but that is not good enough. It is creating mistrust and causing a major problem among the public.

We have a problem with this referendum. We want to know the exact figures. If there is a major problem, we can work together and solve it. I am disappointed with the debate today. The arrogance is unbelievable.

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