Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

I thank Deputy Gormley for the constructive role he has played in this process. We retain elements of rotation. However, the European Union is approaching the stage when no single country, big or small, can manage the full range of business. In the IGC, we are working with 28 members, the Council secretariat and the Commission, and the range is simply enormous. Macedonia lodged its papers with me for its entry to the EU last year, and Croatia had already done so. The extent of the engagement is enormous. As the Deputy knows, we had an EU-Canadian summit a week ago, and we are preparing now for many more. To do that in one Presidency on its own would become impossible. It is a nice honour, but it is becoming an impossibly challenging task. I hope that rotation is not totally lost but that one might rotate in blocks whereby several countries come together to share the workload. I hope that will continue.

On previous treaties, the time for ratification has been about three years. Two years is normally given, and it is up to us where we come in during that period. Right, wrong or indifferent, the Deputy knows that part of the argument on the Treaty of Nice was that the debate had already started on the next position. That was coming in on our debate, even though we went early. That was part of the difficulty. I know the Deputy was out campaigning with me, and not many in this House can say that. However, it was part of the problem that we had the President of the Commission, Lionel Jospin, talking on the other side, totally upstaging the debate.

Ireland has strongly supported a conference on the EURATOM treaty, and we have been clear in the IGC on that. The Deputy and I do not differ on the issue. However, I am afraid there will simply not be a consensus on that; we can only go forward on it. Deputy Sargent has asked me whether we will continue to campaign for some examination to take place. I agree with the Green Party on that; that is how we should try to deal with it.

The declaration on solidarity against terrorism states that member states in accession countries intend to act in the spirit of the solidarity clause laid down in Article 42 of the draft constitution. It is important to demonstrate the political commitment of the European Union to meet the challenges presented by terrorism. The declaration does not affect the legal position regarding the solidarity clause itself. We have agreed that we will act in its spirit pending its adoption. The declaration states that each member state will choose the most appropriate means to comply with the solidarity commitment towards the effect stated. However, each member, including Ireland, will implement that undertaking in accordance with national laws and interests. The solidarity clause has no implications for Ireland's policy of military neutrality. I can say to Deputy Gormley that it does not imply, oblige or require military action of any kind. It is about solidarity with our fellow EU citizens who suffer terrorist attacks, something that all EU citizens support — I know that the Green Party does so. The other neutral countries, Sweden, Finland and Austria, agree that the solidarity clause does not affect their military neutrality.

Deputy Ó Snodaigh mentioned the defence Articles. As set out in the draft constitutional treaty, they are acceptable to all member states, including the neutrals ones, based on the understanding that our traditional positions are fully respected. It is on that basis that we agreed to them.

Deputy Gormley raised the possibility of an EU-wide referendum. That is unlikely, since there are so many countries opposed in one form or another to referendums. In fairness, this time around there has been a convention and a very open process. There has been far more debate, interest and dialogue. I agree with the Deputy that not everyone fully understands, and sometimes it is unfortunate that, no matter what one has included, one does not get the requisite debate. However, this country is ahead of most. Whatever the rights or wrongs of those two referendums, they did much to aid understanding. The ongoing work of the forum and so on helps. We must continue trying to get more discussion and understanding of it in all its aspects. We all play our part in doing so.

Deputy Harkin has left the Chamber, but she asked me a specific question. A declaration pointing to a wider debate on the future of Europe was attached to the Treaty of Nice, and the convention proposes to amend that. That emerged from the wider debate in which many took part.

I thank everyone who participated in this debate for their comments and questions. We will take account of the points made in the second part of our Presidency. I appreciate the constructive attitude shown in Members' contributions.

See this speech in context