Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)

I am delighted at the opportunity to speak on this Bill. Regarding the new constituency of the North-West, Clare is now coming into Connacht-Ulster. The Minister across from me at one time represented it as an MEP. It is a big area. I was reading an article yesterday by Paddy Harte. He was talking about the times when there were six or seven-seat constituencies in Donegal. In Mayo at one time there were nine seats. We are great for elections in this country. It is a little like Sinn Féin — it wants them to be in Government in the North but not in the South. However, it is like that with the voting. In their recent elections, they had six and seven-seat constituencies. If one takes a constituency such as Mayo or the new North-West, one sees that they are massive. It is impossible for MEPs or Oireachtas Members to cover those constituencies.

I raised the issue of electronic voting on the night of the count after the general election in Castlebar at 4 o'clock in the morning, where we had a most eventful day. Why are the Government and Minister spoiling elections and trying to keep people from getting involved in the political system? Now they want to go with electronic voting. In America, they are talking about sending people to Mars, yet in the last presidential election, they were not even fit to run their own affairs. The President of America, George W. Bush, was not legally elected; it was Mr. Gore who challenged him. Mr. Bush won the presidential election because of a mess-up in Florida regarding electronic voting. There were major question marks regarding the result. While the matter went to the courts, it could have gone further. Mr. Gore put the American people first rather than embarrass them throughout the world for the fact that they could not even run the election.

I am totally opposed to electronic voting. It destroys elections because the day of the count was always a great day in Irish political life. Why is the Government taking away Irish culture? Does it think this is such a sophisticated country? It is not. Electronic voting is dangerous and evil and I am worried about it. Every Member of the Oireachtas gets e-mails from officials of the House every day telling him or her not to open e-mails because they will bring down the system. What will stop some gangster or some guy in a university, as in America, bringing down the whole system? Some guy could programme a computer to ensure the Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher, or Deputies Allen or McGinley are elected in every constituency. These guys will control electronic voting and they will make a mess of the election campaign. I do not care what assurances officials give because they do not have to stand for election and can do what they like.

It is wrong that the Government is going down this road. Somebody will have to challenge this — I will not do so because I have enough challenges with which to deal — because it is not right and it is being forced through by stealth. I compliment our spokesman, Deputy Allen, who has consistently raised this issue over the past few months and now people are beginning to realise it is being forced on them. The questions we asked have not been answered. If we go down the road of electronic voting, there will be serious problems in the future. Twenty or 30 years ago, people said there were problems in Dublin City Council and they were castigated in this House and in the council but we now have tribunals. If electronic voting goes ahead, at some point in the future somebody will interfere with it and will determine who will be on both sides of the House. It is dangerous and it is a road down which we should not go.

Even if we do not go down that road, why is the Government trying to get people away from the political system? Polling day has been destroyed by not letting people canvass near polling booths. With electronic voting, the count will be over in an hour. At least people became involved and interested in the political process. They wanted to know who would and who would not be elected, how people had got on and what happened in their own area in respect of the ballot boxes. Electronic voting interferes with the political process about which the Government has been concerned in recent months.

I am worried about electronic voting and about these guys who can interfere with it. I read in the Irish Independent this week about guys who are able to interfere with people's bank accounts. The banks themselves were able to take money out of people's accounts, although it was by accident. That is what will happen with electronic voting. The paper trail will not be there so it should not go ahead.

This should not have been pushed through by the Minister, Deputy Cullen, who is the most arrogant Minister who has ever sat opposite. He is too arrogant and too smart and he will get himself into a lot of trouble because he thinks he can bully, push and shove people into corners. Electronic voting will come back to haunt the Government because some whizz-kid will interfere with it. The Minister of State and his party should have the courage to say they will not bring it in for the local and European Parliament elections because there are too many dangers and risks and that it is best to wait and see. Electronic voting took place in five or six constituencies at the general election. Maybe that should be doubled and it should take place in nine or ten constituencies to see how it works.

What happened to Nora Owen in her Dublin constituency on the night of the last general election was one of the cruellest things that ever happened in Irish political life. An official, who did not have to stand for election, called out the result and the woman who served this country and in public office nearly collapsed. It was outrageous and it is something I hope will never happen again in political life. Whatever way electronic voting comes in, I hope there will be a way to stage-manage it. It was outrageous what happened that night and it is not the way electronic voting should work. We have already taken a number of people who are not involved in the political process out of political life. The Minister of State should do something to ensure that never happens again.

As long as I live, I will never forget what happened to Nora Owen. It took her a long time to get over that. The problem was not that she was defeated in that we all put our names on the ballot paper and we know there will be good days and bad days. In public life, I suppose we do not know when to get out and to do so before we are beaten. At the same time, there must be a system in place so that this never happens again.

The Comptroller and Auditor General is concerned about electronic voting as are the political parties. It should not be rushed and people should not be forced into it. I have been unhappy about it for a long time. I want Deputy Allen, our spokesman on the environment, to make sure this campaign is livened up and that we keep opposing this until we get answers from the Department and reassurances that it will work. It will be no good finding out in ten years' time that somebody was defaulted from becoming a Member of this House because some guy fiddled the electronic voting, and I am not talking about somebody from a political party. There are whizz-kids who like breaking into these types of systems and I am concerned about that.

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