Mr. Tony O'Brien:

I think I have used the term “Ponzi” rather than “pyramid” because there is no direct selling involved and all that stuff you associate with pyramid schemes.

However, the Deputy's analysis is essentially correct. That went on - it was fine in the sense that it was sustainable, even if it was all wrong - during a period when there was very substantial growth. A sufficient amount of money in unrestricted funds was coming in via donations so that things could be covered. Eventually, it reached the point where the cash flow constraints on the organisation meant that could not happen. In those circumstances a completely incorrect decision was made to dip into restricted funds, such as the Capuchin funds, in order to cover the cracks. It was an inevitable crash as a result of the practices that had developed. It may have taken longer to crash if the impact of Covid on fundraising, etc., had not occurred but eventually it was always going to crash. It was a disaster in the making.

I think the underbidding and underpricing of stuff became part of a cultural process designed to respond very quickly to need, but also to grow the organisation in an unstrategic way. That is why one of the things we are focused on is not continuing to be the provider of some of the services that were developed at that time. Instead, we are arranging their transfer to other appropriate charitable and approved housing bodies.