Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)

I thank the Deputy. He is absolutely right. This is a key focus for us. I met the chief people office on this issue recently because the conversion from agency has not been strong enough. We have managed to stay within our budget by taking a total pay approach of whole-time equivalents and agency staff. There is no question that has been a step forward in financial control instead of just continually adding, adding and adding. However, there has not been sufficient agency conversion and part of the reason for that is short-term, emergency reliance on agency staff and insufficient depth in the planning work that is necessary to identify those people who can and would convert and those who, for different reasons, are never going to come within the HSE system. Nevertheless, I want to develop a system within the HSE where staff can apply for additional hours where they want to but within the HSE system and not through agency staff and externally funded sources.