Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)

The Deputy has touched on the issue. If everybody who self-declared as a carer in census 2022, our most recent census, was to qualify, then the potential cost of abolishing the means test could be €3 billion per annum. The minimum is €600 million per annum. We have to phase this in so that when the budget is in place in the Department it will facilitate a minimum of €600 million, in terms of the carers who qualify for the full payment and those who will come into the system for the first time and never engaged, or considered engaging, with the Department but will now do so.

I am determined to do that during the lifetime of this Government, but I could not do it in the context of one budget. We will do it. I cannot lay down exactly when. We are not finished the process with this budget. I have to look at every budget allocation I get but this is a programme for Government commitment. It is a commitment I will deliver. I would like to deliver it early in my time as Minister but I also want to focus on existing carers. We want to make sure their rates, and the carer's support grant, increase, and that we also look at the other payments that people in the caring area get.

It is difficult to say double that will result in a certain number qualifying. We will have this discussion again tomorrow when we go through overruns in terms of carers. I am glad to see the overruns, to be honest. Normally, that is not the case. However, I am glad to see them because it means that more people are engaging and applying. We engage with carers' organisations on this. We will again have an engagement with them well ahead of next year's budget to run through where we are at. It is a difficult one. Once that test is taken away, an awful lot more people will engage with the Department than would normally be the case. An awful lot of people who have never engaged with the Department will engage in this space. That is what we are trying to measure. Before we make the final decision, we will have those figures available. We will be back. I have no doubt this will come before the PAC and others again in trying to estimate this-----