Dr. Breandán Ó Caoimh:

That is wonderful. I thank Deputy Healy-Rae for bringing to life what I was trying to explain around the natural areas of development. The area-based approach is one of the core principles of LEADER right across the European Union. The Deputy referred to the case of IRD Duhallow. Its natural areas of development straddle the Cork-Kerry border. It is all part of Sliabh Luachra and the same cultural identity. I can vouch for that. The way that LEADER has been cajoled into this narrow county boundary geography and, in some cases, municipal district geography, has broken up that natural area of development and severed parishes, severed links and social capital at local level. Deputy Healy-Rae is quite right in that respect. That is the point I was trying to make, namely, that we need to be much more flexible and innovative and have a 21st century approach, not the 16th century or 17th century colonial top-down approach, to deciding the boundaries of rural development. That should be a decision that is made locally and it needs to happen in the next round of LEADER. The Deputy is quite right in that respect. Indeed, with west Cork, which the Deputy mentioned as well, the Beara Peninsula as a unit is something we need to move towards. I am saying that having been an officer in the GAA. I know people's county identity is so important but let us park the football and hurling there and be much more innovative when it comes to the delivery of policy.

I also want to take up Deputy Healy-Rae's point about planning. That links in with my point about the diversity of rural areas. I was suggesting the updating of the typology of rural Ireland. It is over 30 years since the typology was first published. We have the OECD typologies that talk about the intermediate, right up as far as the peripheral rural areas. We need a similar typology for Ireland, so that we understand the differences across rural areas. While there may be some areas under pressure from urban-generated housing, there are other areas that have suffered from depopulation and badly need to be supported to regrow their populations to become vibrant and resilient. We need a much more tiered approach to planning.

The Deputy is also correct that not everybody who works in rural Ireland is necessarily a farmer or a fisher. There are other jobs linked with the rural economy. I am based in a rural community. I can do my work remotely, I am part of the community and I am involved in it as a volunteer. There are people who have come to rural communities and can make a contribution through economic activities other than farming and fishery. We need to update the list of occupations and modernise the criteria around planning as well. When plans are being formulated at local area level, they need to be done in a much more inclusive way. Ms Earley talked about community development. Our planners, when they are trained in the universities, are equipped with community development skills but they are not given the scope to apply them in practice. There is potential for collaboration with the local development companies in formulating plans, so that the local authority plans are much more bottom up.

I welcome the provisions in the town centre first policy the Government has published and is rolling out. It talks about the town centre first plans being community driven and driven by town teams. I would see a role for the local development companies in sitting on those town teams and having the resources to support and animate them, so that the town centre first plans can feed into local area plans and county development plans and bring about change that way, from the bottom up and much more evidence based.