Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)

The witnesses are all very welcome. I thank them for taking time to come today and for their input so far. I am very struck by what they all said. Like everybody else here, I have been contacted by teachers, principals, parents and students about the leaving certificate reform. Notwithstanding the fact that there are so many issues, last week we were here with representatives from the Department to discuss that. This week, I would like to have a conversation because I agree with the witnesses with regard to funding, about the audit that needs to happen and about the need for resources. I have been around many schools and seen the state of some of the labs. We can take science as an example. These labs were probably in existence when I was in school and that was not today or yesterday. We need to look at that.

In some ways, we are putting these reforms ahead of what we can structurally cope with. However, as a mother of four and as somebody who has worked in the area of educational disadvantage for a long time, I am very happy that there will be reform of the leaving certificate. The system does need to change. It needs to be upgraded, but what I am concerned about is whether there will be a kind of stand-off. Do the witnesses think it is going to happen? What do they think is going to happen? I am hearing from teachers who are sometimes very confused as to what is going to happen.

The second thing I am hearing - I am more concerned about it in a way because, thankfully, the teachers have ASTI and the TUI as their unions and their representative bodies - is that students and parents do not really know what is happening. There is a bit of confusion. What can the witnesses say to those who might be listening in or who will watch the proceedings back afterwards in terms of what is going to happen? Are the changes going to take place? If there are going to be strikes or whatever, how will this impact students in terms of learning?

They are nervous, as are teachers, as to how that is going to happen. What will happen with the disruption? There are two things at play here, which are important. I can see it from both sides. I reassure the witnesses that I am not coming down on the side of one or either. I am just trying to think about how this can be implemented in a way that is fair and equitable for the staff, the schools and the students.