Mr. Humphrey Jones:

That is a great question. I would agree. The leaving certificate has served us well. There is no doubt about that. While we need to update the curricula within the courses and look at different modes of assessment, etc., the critical thing for me - it was mentioned by Deputy Coppinger earlier - is that at the end of somebody's time in a school, they are rarely actually reflecting on it and saying "I was captain of the rugby team", "I was participating in my drama" or "I was in the choir". They are coming out and saying "I got 450 points in my leaving cert". It is that connection between the leaving certificate and the curriculum embedded within it, which is being reviewed now and with the CAO that it is the tail wagging the dog, as Mr. Christie said earlier.

We must remember the CAO is not a body within the Department of education. It is a private company owned by the universities. It is the only mechanism for students to get access to university in Ireland. It is a real shame, as a teacher, that when students finish their leaving certificate and reflect on how it went, they talk about the points they got and they do not talk about all the other experiences. Schools are vibrant, fantastic places with so much happening. I am sure Mr. Ó Caoimh would admit this as well. They are amazing places and they are not recognised. The experiences students have in school are not recognised as they move on to the next stage. I am a guidance counsellor. I teach in a school with a partly international aspect. A lot of my students will apply to universities in Europe, the US and the UK. Many students who apply to the universities outside of Ireland often have their courses secured before they sit the leaving certificate. The pressure is gone.