Ms Orla Murphy:

I agree. I suppose the Deputy is bringing in the perspectives of social ethics, social justice and spatial justice to the argument because it is not just financial, numbers or data. These are places with history and heritage where people have lived and where people can live again. It is not just houses; it is all the buildings in our towns and urban environments. I think the purpose of a tax is to get these properties - which have been vacant for a long time, are derelict and are sitting there with embodied carbon and histories, heritage and stories - released to be re-used. It is to encourage that to happen in order that towns can be compact settlements in compliance with the national planning framework and all of the national strategic objectives to meet housing targets, and to make towns and cities great places to be.

The Deputy spoke about shopping moving to the outskirts and the lack of transport where that has happened. All of these things to make towns walkable, liveable and age-friendly places to live - as were echoed in the report by the Housing Commission - are all part of the same jigsaw. That is what we have tried to say today. It is not just tax and data that will solve the problem. This problem has to be holistically solved. If we see it as an opportunity, as opposed to an intractable wicked problem and challenge, then that will help us change our mindset towards solving it in a really cohesive, co-ordinated and tenacious way at all levels, from top down and the bottom of society working together.