Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)

I apologise to our witnesses. The Taoiseach was in the Seanad. It only happens once in five years, so I could not leave. I apologise for being late.

I have read their statement as they have been responding. I was really taken with the final remarks on accommodation. Coming from Galway, we have one of the largest Traveller populations in the country. I live four miles away from a halting site called Capira. I am very aware of the sites in Ballinasloe where the flood waters come up. I am also aware of the Curraghline Road in Galway from a traffic point of view, but also from a Traveller's point of view. Yes, all the money is being spent because the cost of building has gone up. More money is being spent because of the cost of repair work, as opposed to the cost of investment in enhancing and expanding. It is very clear. You would not see some of the halting sites in my country in the slums of Africa. I can only talk about my county. I see the floodwaters rise on the banks of the River Shannon in Ballinasloe. The water is up at the base of the axle of some of the mobile homes. Pregnant ladies cannot find alternative accommodation and are not supported to find alternative accommodation because there is that inherent bias, when the floodwaters rise, as to where people can be accommodated.

While I hear what Mr. Herrick is saying in relation to an independent agency, we have very good, well-intended public officials on all of our local authorities but they lack the support to deliver investment. That is my own opinion on it. We have great public representatives that meet with all the Traveller organisations and all organisations, but it has to be that will within the local authorities. Where does it sit within the human rights element, the dignity and the safety? There is no way being in a mobile home with the floodwaters going up around you is safe where you have children. It is a totally undignified experience, not to mind down to the basic toileting of young children out in the cold with just a shed to go into. I would like to see the people who set the standards in local authorities live there for a night and use the services.

I agree with the witnesses on the accommodation. I would love to see more focus. One of the elements of being on this committee is to ensure that children get a fair start. They are not getting a fair start. I respect the right of Travellers to choose where they so wish to live. If it is a halting site, we should ensure that it is a fit-for-purpose halting site. I did not want to open my TikTok there, but I really wanted to check something. I have seen Mr. McNamara on it there recently.

He showed on TikTok how he was refused entry to a public house. He brought us through the whole process. If you watch it on TikTok, you see that he goes up, he is refused, he goes away, and he goes to the Garda station and asks to be breathalysed to prove he has no alcohol in his system. He does this in a timely manner so that you are seeing it as it is. He goes into the Garda station and he comes out. He has a clear breathalyser and goes straight back down again to the same gentleman on the door. He is still not allowed to enter. To be quite honest, I am appalled that in this day and age we talk about inclusion and integration but we neither respect nor trust the right of a person as they present. The inherent bias that is built in demonstrates itself in many ways, but it is not good for society at a basic level.

I support Dr. Elliott in what she says about the legislative change that is required but I do not know what we can do with the young person who goes to school and does not know the difference, and then all of a sudden perhaps discrimination happens within the education system. For whatever reason, it does. Children do not discriminate so I am trying to understand where the discrimination starts within the education system because it has to start somewhere. Children are let into school. They are inclusive. We have now an early childhood care and education, ECCE, scheme that ensures that everybody can be inclusive. We are doing so much to open up, to integrate. Where are the problems, from their point of view? I would really like to hear that.

I am glad we have touched on employment because the employment element of it has been a focus of the last number of weeks.

Dr. Elliott talked about the overly populated women's prison. This is the piece I want to go to because Dr. Elliott said there is good data. We had Tusla in here last week. Tusla cannot give us data on anything - I find that shocking - and yet at the same time we know that children from a Traveller background are over-represented among children in care. We do not have the figures to back up that statement but we know it. I do not know how they know it, if they cannot crack the figures. It is really a contradiction, but they are able to tell us. If we are able to track it in our prison services, can Dr. Elliott shine a light on it? How can we get more information? How can we get data, because if you do not have data the Government cannot change policy and the money cannot follow? It is a vicious circle. IHREC has a wealth of experience in negotiating. What are we missing? What are we not asking from the various agencies to help to establish the change? Tusla was here last week and it shocked me. They have changed their system but they still do not capture the data.

What is IHREC's view on kinship? Last week was Kinship Week but yet that process no longer exists really within Tusla. However, if you know the Traveller community, you will know that members of that community like to hold on and support. We have got rid of that process, however.

I would love to hear the witnesses' views. Apologies, I have thrown in an awful lot there.