Mr. Bernard Gloster:

This is where I think it is important to be fair to section 38 hospitals and everybody else. It is not just them. We have our own hospitals too. I would say the taxpayer is paying for services that are expected in the annual service plan from the Minister to the HSE, or expected historically, and that do not come up the standard or level that is expected.

There may be different reasons for that, but I would say we have a way to go in our health and social care system before we can stand over saying we are delivering what we are funded to deliver.