Mr. Brian Nolan:

A lot of work has to be done. As I mentioned earlier, a longer term plan must be put in place. We will always have difficulty with housing. I remember in 2012 I was doing the job for the union and was finding ghost estates. Who would have thought we would end up in the position we are now? We are in that position and that is the reality.

What we do not do well enough as an industry and a country is advertise the benefits of working in, for example, the construction crafts. We have a sectoral employment order for construction workers. For electricians, there is a national collective agreement. Plumbers and pipe fitters have their own agreement. Within those are good rates of pay. There are pensions, sick pay, death-in-service payments and various other benefits. There is no glass ceiling or gender pay gap. People the enter the industry, leave it for whatever reason and come back.

There is a natural progression that sees the increases are there when they come back. I do not think we advertise it well enough. I take on board the fact the union has to do its part as well. The reality is that there needs to be more of an effort to ensure the process of delivering the apprenticeship is swifter. We have had a lot of difficulty over recent years. To be fair, the national apprenticeship office has a lot of it in hand at the moment. However, it was not without its own problems even earlier in the year as regards the budget. There were classes delayed for phases 4 and 6, I think. If we are to address housing, which is an urgent issue, we need this apprenticeship to be as close to the four-year minimum period as it can possibly be. We can deliver the apprenticeship in four years, give or take a week or two. It cannot be any less. That is fine. That is what it is for the structure. We need to have those measures in place and funding and facilities to take an intake of apprentices as soon as they possibly can. Instructors are another problem. They need to identify and retain top-level instructors. It has been done before and it can be done. It just needs a bit of attention. If those things were in place, you would get the numbers through and start to tackle the 80,000. I am not quite sure about the figure of 80,000. I keep hearing it myself, but it could be more.