Ms Saoirse Brady:

We would hope it would not be used in Oberstown and I do not think it would be. Yesterday, I sent a letter to Oberstown regarding its review of its children's rights policy framework which is fairly strong. In Britain they recently introduced pepper spray against children in youth detention and that would be wholly unacceptable. I would sincerely hope it would not happen here and I do not think there is any proposal for that.

With regard to the people on whom it could be used and those vulnerabilities I mentioned, the CPT and other human rights bodies have said it cannot be used against people with particular characteristics. Some of those are people who are mentally ill. People have died in other jurisdictions, including in New Zealand, where somebody who was mentally ill was subjected to pepper spray and restraint and died following their use. We would hope that would not happen here but it has happened in New Zealand, the UK and New York in the US. We would be fairly concerned about that.

What we would be concerned about is if a violent situation arises, given the overcrowding situation, is every prison officer going to take a step back in the heat of the moment and say "Oh yes, I know that person's medical history. I know exactly what vulnerabilities they have"? At present, the only people allowed to use pepper spray in this jurisdiction are the gardaí and there is very clear policy guidance around that. It is 45 pages long, I think, and is very detailed. The conditions under which the gardaí can currently use pepper spray would not apply in prison. They are usually using it outside and there would be immediate healthcare access required, particularly for people with certain medical issues, including epilepsy and mental health issues. Currently, given the overstretched-----