Mark Ward (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)

I thank the witnesses for the opening statements. I will echo what the Cathaoirleach said at the beginning. I do not think this process does anything justice. Talking about six Bills in one go does not do any of the Bills justice. In the limited time I have, I will not be able to get around to all the witnesses. I will talk about the counselling notes being used in evidence in criminal trials.

My professional background is that I worked as a counsellor for people with addiction and mental health issues, which is all trauma-based. I have not practised since 2018. Over the weekend, I checked the guidelines and the code of ethics of the governing body I was signed up to. The only time I had to break the confidentiality of a counselling session was if I felt somebody was a danger to themselves or others. There was no instruction from the governing body to which I was assigned to say that any of my notes could be used in a criminal case if the prosecution asked for them. Does that only arise in sexual assault cases or is it broadened out into other areas, too? It does not sit right with me, morally and professionally, to hand over notes as a counsellor.

I thank Ms Behan for her testimony, which was powerful and put the human aspect to what we are dealing with today. One of the things she said that struck me was that the practise of using counselling notes in court means that survivors are forced to self-centre and stay silent, or to carry their trauma along. That goes against anything intended by counselling. It goes against what counselling should be for. It is there to deal with trauma, not to make you keep it in.

I have a couple of questions. I met survivors before this meeting. I would like to have had more people in as witnesses. They talked about the psychological harm of the disclosure of their counselling notes. They said it was another form of gender-based violence, but this time in the courts system, against women. That needs to be put on the record. I would have liked to have had those witnesses before the committee. In Ms Behan's opinion, will the current form, as presented today, make things worse or better, or will the status quo remain?