Mr. Tony O'Brien:

You have to look at the way the trust emerged over time, which was before much of the contemporary regulation was put in place. Insufficient attention was paid to achieving compliance. I have spoken to other people in other approved housing bodies who spent up to three years preparing to be compliant when the regulations came in. That was not a feature of how the trust approached these matters. Things were excessively cosy, if I can use that term, and normal checks and balances were not put in place. That is how it arose.