James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)

Absolutely. It is only a minor observation but walking up the steps into the Dáil, you look up and the roof is collapsing. There are literally pieces of the ceiling collapsing onto the Gallery as the Taoiseach is going in. It is indicative of the whole infrastructure of the State.

I want to feed this back to Mr. Gibbons. I would be really insincere to him if I did not say it. I think there is a lack of appetite among senior civil servants because they fear the repercussions from unions over how reforms are brought in. We will get a chance for a second round of questions and I would love to tease that out with Mr. Gibbons. He has time to ponder it. I hate to interrupt but we are obliged to take a small break to allow people use the bathroom. We have been sitting for two hours. We will come back to Deputy Lawlor and then Senator McCarthy. The meeting is suspended for five minutes.