Mr. Justice Alan Mahon:

I will start at the end and work back. Bullying obviously means different things to different people. Bullying that I might think of as very minor might be very significant for someone else, particularly somebody who might be categorised as vulnerable. Particularly in the military rank-and-file set-up we have in any defence forces, bullying can be a greater problem, if it exists, than it might be in Guinness or some other large employer. When dealing with bullying, you always have to try to put yourself in the position of the victim. You also have to be very careful. It is a very serious finding to make against somebody accused of bullying in the Defence Forces because it is a very black mark on their record. We can be thankful that I get a relatively small number of bullying complaints. They comprise the smallest category of complaints. The Defence Forces have introduced a very interesting new system for dealing with interpersonal complaints. Kevin Duffy of the Labour Court is the final arbiter. Those cases have nothing to do with my office. Members can use this new system, which is informal and user-friendly. If they then want to make a more formal complaint, they can come to my office. The fact that they have been through this new internal system does not prevent them coming to my office. I do not know how many complaints are in that system. It may be that, if there are any complaints, the majority are being dealt with there. Bullying is sometimes thrown in as an add-on. Somebody will complain that he or she was not selected for a course and then might say he or she did not have a chance because Captain so-and-so bullies me. The main complaint is not being selected. Such complaints are relatively few in number but they can be significant enough in the sense that the person is obviously suffering.

I remember officers years ago saying to me it was not the done thing for an officer to go outside the institution to make complaints. You did not wash your dirty linen in public, so to speak. About three or four years ago, we introduced a direct referral option for personnel. Before that, they had to start their complaint within the Defence Forces under section 114, which the Senator would have some familiarity with, and they could come to us at a later stage as long as it was within the limitation period of one year. Now that they can come directly to us, that has attracted more officers to complain. I am not suggesting they necessarily have more to complain about but they feel more comfortable about coming to my office with a complaint than going internally. When you go internally, it will be a fellow officer - someone you have coffee with every Friday morning - who has to sit in judgment of you. There are also issues related to recruitment and retention. Many officers are under pressure, as are NCOs and so on, because they are often doing two or three jobs where before they had to do one. I imagine that produces issues as well but I think the reason we get more officers now is they feel more comfortable coming directly to us.

The Senator talked about women in the Defence Forces. I meet female personnel at functions or while visiting different barracks and have always been impressed by the extent to which they feel comfortable in the Defence Forces and the praise they heap on the Defence Forces. I do not get a sense from talking to them that they are in any way under pressure or feel excluded or discriminated against. Only about 7% or 8% of the Defence Forces are women. I was particularly impressed when I visited Haulbowline a couple of years ago. Some of the top officers in the Naval Service are women. They are very much into their careers and will say they are completely relaxed in their relationships with male personnel. I do not get a sense from talking to them that there are issues, for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Things have probably improved a lot, thanks to all the publicity over the past two or three years. I do not know whether I have answered.

Mr. O'Connor is reminding me there is a big push on education in the Defence Forces, in terms of bullying and interpersonal behaviour. I think they are very much on top of it now compared to three or four years ago, but then the Army is the Army, so it can be tough, I suppose, but I think-----