Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)

The first issue is the section 5 exemptions. These happen under SI 376/2023, which grants exemptions for properties to be used as IPAS centres in order to provide people with temporary accommodation. This provision expires in 2028.

I note what Deputy Guirke said about concern being created in communities. If a section 5 application notice goes up, some people believe that, inevitably, there will be an IPAS centre. It does not mean that at all. However, some people - and I am not saying this applies to anyone in the Oireachtas - deliberately misuse this information and suggest that because a section 5 application has been made, people need to protest against the arrival of an IPAS centre. This is being done for fairly reprehensible reasons by certain small groups of people. The purpose of a section 5 exemption is in order that individuals who want to come to the Department and state they have accommodation available can say they have a planning exception from the local authority.

Deputy Guirke also mentioned the budget for IPAS. The figures are eye-watering. I want to reduce them. I must emphasise a point I made in my opening statement, namely that there certainly was a situation in 2022, 2023 and 2024 when there was a crisis because of the numbers arriving. The real driver of the amount of money the State spends is the number of people coming in who have to be accommodated. We spent €1 billion last year because 33,000 people or so were accommodated. This is the real driver. The way to respond to this is to get people through the system much faster and have their applications processed so they are not staying in IPAS centres for one, two or three years. We want to get them in and out promptly over a period of months. Everyone is entitled to this.

Deputy Guirke also asked about transparency. There is transparency. Details of any expenditure above €20,000 by the Department in respect of IPAS are published on the gov.ie website. This is where people can see information about the amounts of money made by individuals in the private sector. It is unquestionably the case that huge amounts of money were paid out to individuals in the private sector. My assessment, looking back on it and having listened to my experienced officials, is that the State was desperate for accommodation during the surge in 2022, 2023 and 2024. There clearly was an imbalance of power in the negotiations and private accommodation providers were probably able to use the crisis to get higher prices for themselves. I am pleased to say this has been changed considerably. Already in 2025, there have been 100 renegotiations of contracts, saving, as I have said, approximately €46 million, and maybe a bit more.

Deputy Guirke asked whether we will cap the price per night per person. I do not think I need to do that. A new rate card has come into existence. This sets out the basis on which we will offer a sum of money to a private provider. It depends on a variety of issues. It depends on location, catering provision, room sizes, staffing and security. Many of these factors are taken into account when we look at a place. Obviously, location is a big element. There is a big difference between paying for accommodation to be used as IPAS centres in more advantaged areas and in disadvantaged areas.